-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
AndyM
Member
You can make the same statement about the motor. Tesla has a lot of value in licensing that technology as intellectual property... so it makes sense that vehicles they produce with that intellectual property will cost more. Especially at the beginning of a business' life.
Price does not equal the sum of the parts + margin. Price responds to what the market demands for the product. A similar example: Apple products are not significantly better enough than generic PCs to support their higher prices (cringing from a flood of angry fan boy comment.. I own a lot of Apple stuff, btw), but the value customers perceive from the entire product (and service!) is enough to set a higher price tag.
This is true, Tesla's expertise is in packaging the batteries, not battery technology
Citizen-T
Active Member
Nit-pic. Panasonic has good battery cell technology. Tesla has good battery pack (packaging, thermal management, software) technology.
I apologize in advance for going off topic (I'll try to bring it back on topic at the end).
I have been tracking reservations. While I haven't had the time to put it in a graph, I can tell you this: the reservation rate since the Amped Tour is nothing short of jaw dropping, remarkable, [insert superlative].
Here are the official numbers announced at Tesla's earning calls:
2011 Q2: 5,300 Units
2011 Q3: 6,500 Units (1,200 Net New Reservations)
2011 Q4: 8,170 Units (1,670 Net New Reservations)
2012 Q1: 9,800 Units (1,630 Net New Reservations)
New reservations have grown in the first two weeks of July to over 800. Adjusted for the lag in tracking the Europe reservations (I was slow on reporting that European Signatures sold out sometime ago), there are conservatively over 700 new reservations in the first two weeks of this quarter. This two-week rate would translate into 4,200 net new reservations for the 2012 Q3. This is significant, considering the last two quarters resulted in 1,630 and 1,670 net new reservations.
Granted, this extrapolation is extraordinarily optimistic (re: unrealistic). However, the data reflects what many of us already know, as more people drive the Model S (re: Amped Tour) and see the Model S (re: retail store openings), there is a significant increase in reservations. Given this data, I respectfully disagree that "Tesla is pushing severely overpriced product Tesla will have problem. And very soon. I guess that number of people who are ready to pay $100K for the car which should really cost twice less is very limited." Rather, there appears to be a significant number of people willing to pay between $75k and $100K for a Model S as more information is available (again, test drives, store openings, etc.). The data illustrates there are enough people to meet (if not exceed) Tesla's 2012 and 2013 sales projections.
I'm interested to hear what reservation number(s) Elon announces on the Q2 conference call. Given his history of releasing information prematurely (i.e., the Model S is 4G ready, Tesla will announce the Super-Fast Charging Network in July, etc.), I'd be surprised if he only announces the reservations through June 30th. My speculation is Tesla will announce over 13,000 reservations through July 2012.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
No, I think it's more of an 'English as a 2nd language' thing.
And I don't know what other people think it's worth to have the hand of God swoosh down to give you a boost whenever you press the accelerator, but I think that's worth a lot.
And I don't know what other people think it's worth to have the hand of God swoosh down to give you a boost whenever you press the accelerator, but I think that's worth a lot.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
I'm a big believer in elegance achieved through simplicity.
Oh, hey! What a coincidence. That's my signature line : Simplicity: The achievement of maximum effect with minimum means.
Oh, hey! What a coincidence. That's my signature line
: Simplicity: The achievement of maximum effect with minimum means.While you may be correct about the American market, Tesla has barely tapped the international market and could see significant growth from foreign markets. Already Norway is the 2nd biggest customer of Tesla I believe. In Europe gas costs $7-$8 a gallon. Germany is the largest producer of solar electricity in the world. The European market is ripe for Tesla's taking. If BMW, Mercedes and Audi can sell enough luxury cars to sustain themselves, I see no reason why Tesla can't.
DISCLAIMER #1: This is not flame bait!
This all depends how you look at things. Your 911 has a plain steel structure (cheap, well tested, easy to manufacture), metal plating (doors, etc. - same argument as before), gasoline engine (millions of those have been made, and they're really easy to make: you just mold metal!), etc. The one thing that your 911 has that no other car has is, er..., well nothing really! It's just a car like a million others.
The Model S has an alumin(i)um chassis, structurally integrated integrated battery pack, high-power electrical circuitry, and a very clever touch-screen controlled interface to manage this all. So quite a few things are first-ever's, and it's made in a much lower volume. Result: relatively high price-tag.
Oh, and the S seats 3.5 times as many as a 911. It's a big car, and more car often means more money.
DISCLAIMER #2: I know nothing about Porsches - perhaps they are a piece of art.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
EVs can be complex too (for the sake of it?!) - Exhibit A: the Coda sedan's entrails (hmm... I see some big intestines, some little intestines...):
Maybe, the Coda should cost more?! :tongue:
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Interesting information. Thank you. I personally wouldn't be so exited about these numbers. People do a lot of things on a pick of enthusasm. It's not a big deal to send five grands as a refundable deposit. Especially if those five grands are not tha last. It's exactly what I did. Now, after two years when purchase date is just near by I have reason to think about the situation more seriously. So, what do I have? I planed to have Tesla for short everyday commute and keep my 911 for long long time (I usually change cars very often) driving it just for fun. And 911 is a lot of fun, trust me on that. For this purpose the idea of an electrical car for under $50K looked attractive. As I can see now its not going to work. With the way Tesla formulates the price Model S under $50 just doesn't exist. The minimal configuration for me now is $59000 after rebate but before Californian 10% tax. So I will have to pay approximately 65 grands for the car with very limited usability and very limited options. And I'm talking about smallest battery and slowest car. My wife's MB E350 had the same price tag. It's faster than Tesla (small one) and it doesn't depend on the limited charging network. And fuel tank is not shrinking with time. So if one is not particularly crazy about green planet what would be the reason to buy Tesla for this kind of money? I hope we all agree that the economy on gas is absolutely illusive. We will pay for the electricity and one way or another we will pay for the battery amortization.
