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You are correct, and here's why: In Norway a fully optioned Model S Performance costs about the same as a base Audi A7 with the 2.8L engine and NO options at all. A fully optioned S7 costs 2,5 times as much and still the P85 Model S is faster.
A base Model S will probably cost less than a VW Golf GTD with the 2.0 170hp TDI engine and DSG gearbox.
I don't think they'll have any problems selling more than a 1000 cars here yearly, maybe even more than 2000. Though I suspect the sales will be skewed towards the Model X unless Tesla decide to offer a hitch and AWD on the S too.
I would say that it is a big deal for a lot of people to send in $5,000 even if it is a fully refundable deposit. Granted most people considering the Model S can probably do without that money for awhile but it's not like the $99 Leaf reservation.
The Model S seems to be a great handling car that is safe, environmentally friendly if that matters to you, and unique. Not many people will come up to you and talk to you or ask questions about a Mercedes E350 but I'd imagine you'll meet new people with the Model S. It can be quite fun. Granted in LA, you won't be the only one with a Model S but it's the ideal commuter car. Since you're keeping the 911, can you use that for your longer trips? What's your max mileage on a normal day? You were thinking of the 40 kWh pack then?
For me the biggest selling point is the remote cabin cooling. In Texas, the ability to cool your car to 70 while you're just leaving the movie theater for example and your car has been sitting in the summer sun for hours is awesome. Even if you don't care about the environment that much, never having to go the the gas station is worth a few thousand dollars a year to me as well. All the cost savings are presuming gas will stay under $4/gallon. All it takes is one oil crisis and driving an EV makes a ton more sense.
kevincwelch
Active Member
I could definitely see Tesla hitting it large in the European market, especially given the costs of fuel and the proximity of major cities.
I just have my doubts about the American market until the price comes down. But, as I've said before, the brave few have to pave the way before the market expands.
For some, decisions can also be political in nature. I tend to think of big oil companies as evil empires. They take government subsidies, pay for foreign oil, refine gas and then, prices gas for whatever they perceive the market will bear. It's like being addicted to drugs and paying whatever they are asking because you have to have it.
I hate when my friends complain about things, yet do nothing about it. If you ever complained about gas prices, war in the middle east, oil subsidies, gulf oil drilling or anything, then speak with your wallet. Support a Califronia-based company delivering a true alternative to the ICE and gasoline.
Why would the economy on gas be illusive? There's cost of ownership that needs to be factored in. Drive the E350 for 75,000 miles vs a Model S and which will be cheaper during that lifetime? Electricity can be offset if you have solar or get TOU night time rates from Edison. The price of model S has some premium associated with it that would offset the amount of gas one consumes on a monthly and yearly basis.
Battery depreciation is somewhat of an unknown on vehicle depreciation, but am hopeful that after 10-12 years replacements could be had much cheaper than they are today.
Now I'm totally confused. I see that 80% percent people here are up to most expensive Model S. So, we are talking about $100000+. This money buys Porsche 911 or BMW M5 or E63 AMG or S550. Do you mean that people who the whole life could afford only Hondayota and Geo Metro suddenly jumped into hundred thousand segment? Sorry, but I can not believe that anybody for whom 5K is a serious financial burden would ever consider purchase of so expensive and exotic car.
As an ex-911 owner I agree it is a work of art. HOWEVER, do you know that the Porsche 911 is the HIGHEST MARGIN car on the market? It actually has a 75% margin!! Reason being there is not much engineering that goes into it now, as its design has remained basically stable (with only minor mods) for decades. This is verifiable fact. I know, I was completely surprised when I learned that also.
I think it should cost twice as much or at least 1-1/2 times (keep less people from having one:tongue
. I am not willing to buy any car for $100K, but I will buy a Tesla.(my most expensive car ever was $30k - after tax, lic,fees - model S will be $100,300 before any fees)
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Absolutely. My most expensive car was $28k before this. And I'm not getting a $100k Model S. My likely configuration is around $80k. And that's an upgrade from my original $65k model since I got an unexpected $15k since the time I originally deposited.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Now I'm the one totally confused, Alex.
I don't get the point you're trying to make. You seem to not like Tesla or the Model S - or am I missing something?
Could you try restating your position here? Please explain it for my simple mind. Because I read your posts and I just don't know what you're trying to tell us.
I don't get the point you're trying to make. You seem to not like Tesla or the Model S - or am I missing something?
Could you try restating your position here? Please explain it for my simple mind. Because I read your posts and I just don't know what you're trying to tell us.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
I don't get it. You claim to have a 911 and MB E350, and that a $5k deposit is no big deal, yet you're complaining that the Model S is too expensive?
You DO know that you NEVER pay just base price on any car, right? They all have tax. Tesla's pricing methods are not signicantly different than anyother car company. Expecting that you'd pay under $50k when that was essentially announced as the base price after tax rebate was...well..naive.
And it must be fed expensive gasoline, which gets more expensive over time. Have you driven a Model S yet? If you have a reservation as you say you do then you should drive it to see for yourself.
Here are some reasons which have nothing to do with environmental friendliness:
-Single-speed: instantaneous torque from any speed, no shifting required, no transmission.
-Lots of storage space
-Unique touchscreen/digital interface.
-Ride quality. Very quiet, very little vibration, stiff chassis.
-excellent handling (lower CG than the MB)
-Simple drivetrain. Less to go wrong.
-No oil changes.
-Telematics/pre-conditioning of the cabin via smartphone.
-Cheaper cost per mile than the 911.
-When you want to accelerate quickly in the MB or 911, you have to wait for the downshift to get in the peak power band. No delay at all in the Model S.
-Foreign oil independence
-Outstanding safety.
-Uniqueness/conversation piece.
AlexSV said:
If you do the math--and getting the P40 battery--you'll find that the extra cost for the battery is much less than you will pay in fuel for the 911 or E350. The larger battery pack you buy, the more you have to drive for the battery to pay for itself. But given premium fuel and the life of the car, the cost of the largest battery and a similar sedan are not dramatically different.
Seriously, if none of these things are of value to you, then I suggest you refund your deposit and look elsewhere. There are plenty who see these things as well worth the price.
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The most expensive car I've bought so far is the Leaf. I have a Model S reservation and that car will probably cost me about 2,4 times of what I paid for the Leaf. So it's a pretty big step up the ladder.
Incidentally, we'll keep the Leaf too
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
My car will be very well optioned, and will cost $79k after tax rebate. You're rounding WAY up, or using signature/performance prices. Again, you ignored it before but remember you're essentially paying for a lot of your fuel up front with this car.
And the most expensive car I've ever owned was a Saturn SL1. Bought it for $14,500.
Don't be upset.
. I likeTesla. To be more precise, I like the idea of 100% electric car. So far I am not very happy with implementation. OK. It's fast. But it must be fast by definition - it has electrical motor. And it very difficult to impress me with fast car. My personal car sequence in last 10 years: E55 AMG, SL 500, BMW M5 and now 911. Sorry, I just love fast German cars. I'm just trying to understand for myself: why the car which in terms of luxury is so behind is so expensive? I've got used to some standards in luxury cars and I want to understand if very questionable advantage of electrical power overweights obvious lack of basic luxury options - sports seats, seat ventilation, storage space (luxury?), memory seats, heating steering wheel... Not talking about absence of modern safety features. If I'm about spending about $70000 I must be sure that I do it for reason other than "just cool". It's cool, no doubts. And?
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Don't be upset.
I'm just trying to understand for myself: why the car which in terms of luxury is so behind is so expensive? I've got used to some standards in luxury cars and I want to understand if very questionable advantage of electrical power overweights obvious lack of basic luxury options - sports seats, seat ventilation, storage space (luxury?), memory seats, heating steering wheel... Not talking about absence of modern safety features. If I'm about spending about $70000 I must be sure that I do it for reason other than "just cool". It's cool, no doubts. And?
Oooh. A pat on the head.
I guess you're the only one who can decide if the 'questionable advantage of electrical power' has value to you. To me, it does.
Loved my 911T, loved my M5. But neither compared to my Roadster. They were nice cars, great cars. I enjoyed driving those cars. But not the way I feel about the Roadster. You may just not be the person who enjoys what driving an EV brings to the table. And that's okay. But asking other people to explain the value and then arguing about what they say ... seems like your mind is already made up.
Make sense?
Some people bought Tesla Roadsters which ranged between 103k to 158k+
You could have purchased an Aston Martin Vantage V8, R8 Convertible, Mercedes SL AMG, Maserati GT, Almost two 911's etc
A lot of us have Ferrari's and other performance cars, but the feeling you get without ever stopping at a gas station, in many ways becomes a way of life. No matter how fast or how good looking the "next" great performance car is, it is tough to go back, once you have lived with an EV for a significant amount of time.
To the enthusiast these cars and the cars you listed are not competition. There is only one car company that makes a performance fully electric vehicle at any price; that is Tesla.
Sousaphil
P2,595
Actually, yes. I just signed a 20-year lease with Solar City. The zero-down option basically means immediate break-even. It will supply 115-125% of my energy consumption including 80 miles worth of charging a day.
arondaniel
Il Sessanta Caricato
Here's a counterpoint. 5K is plenty serious to me, and I'll be getting the base model S, my only option will probably be blue paint. At 50K after rebate it's already twice what I've paid for my current car in 1999 dollars.
At 50K I'll have essentially the same 100K car. By the time the "Porsche 911 or BMW M5 or E63 AMG or S550" has had its head gaskets, timing belt (plus tensioner), distributor, oxygen sensors, exhaust system and water pump replaced, I will buy a new battery (for a lot less than it costs now) and I will have quite nearly the same performance & range of that 100k Tesla.
-A
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