Model S range and interior update imminent?

[sandpiper]

Other then door pockets, vanity mirror lights (M3 and MX) and auto open close doors (MX), can’t see much else happening to the current MS. Would make sense for parts to be streamlined across all 3 models for economies of scale. Wouldn’t be difficult to migrate existing tech into MS to provide more value.

Once a while redesign comes into play, I’m sure MS will once again lead the pack with respect to new innovation.

Unless a 110/120kw battery announced.

I'm betting that we're going to see a major refresh - outer and inner - all in one go. As noted many many times, it's essentially the same vehicle that went out in 2012. And there are a lot of silly compromises that got made as a matter of necessity because they couldn't get any quality suppliers on board at the time.

The fact that they haven't resolved these little issues implies, to me, that they're going to deal with them all in one major refresh.

 

[Destiny1701]

I'm betting that we're going to see a major refresh - outer and inner - all in one go. As noted many many times, it's essentially the same vehicle that went out in 2012. And there are a lot of silly compromises that got made as a matter of necessity because they couldn't get any quality suppliers on board at the time.

The fact that they haven't resolved these little issues implies, to me, that they're going to deal with them all in one major refresh.

I don’t believe new buyers to MS actually feel the same way existing longer term owners do! The higher demand lately seems to point to MS not going stale at all with new owners to Tesla. The look is still beautiful inside and out and people continue to purchase MS on forecast regardless of update or not.

The incremental uplift of exterior/interior options seems to be what Tesla is all about for years now instead of one massive model style change. The quality of the interior has steadily improved over the years and would continue to do so until a major design change.

I agree MS may be due for a new entire frame body/interior for 2019/20 as that’s the 7-8 yr lifecycle if a typical luxury car. Until then, as mentioned I can only assume slight updated features bringing more value to MS and its price point to further differentiate it...as M3 continues to ramp. And again updates that bring more efficiency to the parts and production process...not make it more complex.

 

[DIL]

Market forces are finally starting to shift, producing some real competition on EV and autonomous, namely Jaguar I-pace (check out that interior) and Cadillac Super Cruise (totally different approach, probably a safer UI implementation).

I'm very eager to see how Tesla steps up on the next iteration of their first vehicle, the Model S

 

[P85Dave]

I don’t believe new buyers to MS actually feel the same way existing longer term owners do! The higher demand lately seems to point to MS not going stale at all with new owners to Tesla. The look is still beautiful inside and out and people continue to purchase MS on forecast regardless of update or not.

The incremental uplift of exterior/interior options seems to be what Tesla is all about for years now instead of one massive model style change. The quality of the interior has steadily improved over the years and would continue to do so until a major design change.

I agree MS may be due for a new entire frame body/interior for 2019/20 as that’s the 7-8 yr lifecycle if a typical luxury car. Until then, as mentioned I can only assume slight updated features bringing more value to MS and its price point to further differentiate it...as M3 continues to ramp. And again updates that bring more efficiency to the parts and production process...not make it more complex.

The only difference here is that if you wanted a premium EV, Tesla was the only option.

In a year, Tesla will have competition and as much as I love our Tesla, I also understand that the interior from 2012 is really the weak point of the car and the sooner they address it the better.

 

[The Duke]

The people I demo for all love the interior or hate it. Some want a garbage truck full of cubbys and pockets but others want something easy to keep nice. Here's hoping an interior refresh keeps the present trend.

Maybe move the display up a few inches and have a split slot vent system a la Model 3?

 

[Destiny1701]

The only difference here is that if you wanted a premium EV, Tesla was the only option.

In a year, Tesla will have competition and as much as I love our Tesla, I also understand that the interior from 2012 is really the weak point of the car and the sooner they address it the better.

It’s still the only real premium option today. A year? I’d like to know which manufacturer will definitively have their EV’s on the road and in dealerships by then. They talk big ie. Porsche, VW, BMW, Merc. BMW is supposed to have 4 models all EV in 2019. No hint of any production process there!

Not to mention access to any supercharger network? For true EV competition to occur, a consumer will also look at charging and range...not just the car or brand.

 

[iffatall]

...Not to mention access to any supercharger network? For true EV competition to occur, a consumer will also look at charging and range...not just the car or brand.

I often think about this point too. What's the point of having a long range EV without a robust fast charging network. I know CHAdeMO and other networks are gradually growing, but at least in the US, they are still far from enabling worry free long distance driving.

 

[daktari]

I don’t believe new buyers to MS actually feel the same way existing longer term owners do! The higher demand lately seems to point to MS not going stale at all with new owners to Tesla. The look is still beautiful inside and out and people continue to purchase MS on forecast regardless of update or not.

Feel exactly the same, no cars match the Tesla interior yet, including Q7, when it comes to a high tech feel. Still beautiful and modern exterior. But I got mine a year ago, I also understand 2013 owners have grown tired of it by now. I do not believe in a major upgrade or new S, a profitable Y would be the smart choice to invest in. Smaller changes like new seats, new interior panels, faster mcu, new rims and rear lights on the other hand will come.

 

[buttershrimp]

Does anyone have a good example of a refresh gone wrong? There are too many to list from other car manufacturers.

 

[Electricious]

Does anyone have a good example of a refresh gone wrong? There are too many to list from other car manufacturers.

Have you seen what happened with the 2016 election?

*ducks*

 

[buttershrimp]

Have you seen what happened with the 2016 election?

*ducks*

So tempting to respond.... can't resist urge to self-promote website.... arrrrrghhhhh

 

[Ofarlig]

I really do not think the refresh will happen this year, they are selling very good and right now they have enough problems with not producing enough Model 3s. So shutting down the S/X production for the refresh and dealing with the production issues that always occur when making a new product is something I doubt they want to deal with, as well as needing the cash they are making from the S/X currently. I think they might have planned for the refresh to happen soon but might have pushed it back when demand for S/X rose and the Model 3 got more production difficulties than they expected.

I think we will see a refresh happen 2019 at this pace, maybe late 2018. Either case I don't think I will be able to get a refreshed car until almost summer 2019 at the earliest here in Europe.

I bet on that my thoughts are right by buying a new inventory car still on its way to Europe a few weeks ago. Also I would not want to have a refreshed Model S if it means I am getting one of the early ones, Tesla does not have a track record of getting things right in the first months of production.

 

[gaswalla]

I think we'll see an orchestrated effort to extend the 7500 federal tax credit through the end of the year (by timing deliveries to coincide with the 200k delivery in the US first week of July)... Let S and X demand become pent up by not letting them contribute to the 200k and holding off on deliveries...Then pump out S and X with a refreshed interior and exterior and refreshed price point (price increase) along with 5k Model 3s per week (long range only, dual drive and performance availability also) through the end of December.... Will make for a record year... With increases demand and revenue thanks to improved products and 7
a 7500 coupon from uncle Sam (or Donald)

 

[sandpiper]

I think we'll see an orchestrated effort to extend the 7500 federal tax credit through the end of the year (by timing deliveries to coincide with the 200k delivery in the US first week of July)... Let S and X demand become pent up by not letting them contribute to the 200k and holding off on deliveries...Then pump out S and X with a refreshed interior and exterior and refreshed price point (price increase) along with 5k Model 3s per week (long range only, dual drive and performance availability also) through the end of December.... Will make for a record year... With increases demand and revenue thanks to improved products and 7
a 7500 coupon from uncle Sam (or Donald)

The price on the S/X should see some interesting changes what with a 10% increase in the price of Al.

Sometimes if feels like we've all gone down the rabbit hole into a place where nothing makes any sense and nothing is predictable. Things are crazy this week, and next week it's worse.

 

[wdolson]

I suspect the tariff will be short lived. GW Bush tried a tariff and it lasted less than a year.

Sometimes these things also have an exception for things that will subsequently be exported, so it's possible the overseas price of Teslas may not go up. Though this administration screws up everything, so the executive order creating the tariff probably doesn't have any exceptions.

 

[svp6]

I often think about this point too. What's the point of having a long range EV without a robust fast charging network. I know CHAdeMO and other networks are gradually growing, but at least in the US, they are still far from enabling worry free long distance driving.

The funny part is that I realized I really do not need the SC network - but only after 3 years of ownership. In these 3 years, I did a trip to Chicago (~400 mile one way) 3 times - and each time just because I enjoyed my P85D much more than my wife's old G37 coupe. The SC was key to be able to do that, and the added time for charging (~60 min per leg) did not seem unbearable.

This year we changed both cars - got a Model 3 and a Merc E-coupe. We love both - each of them has advantages and disadvantages; in fact we both hesitate which car to take - just because both are great. But that makes my potential trip one to be done in the Merc - it is simply smoother, and surprisingly a more quiet ride (despite the ICE). So at this time, SC is not important to me.

For those who travel a lot, or have a single car, SC is of course a tremendous advantage. For others like myself, the Jag does not seem a bad proposition, even without the charging network.

 

[bhzmark]

I agree with the first part: they manage US deliveries to not cross 200k until July. That keeps the full tax credit in place until December.

But then for January and later deliveries demand may fall off a cliff when the tax credit is cut in half. Endowment effect etc. See georgia, Hong Kong etc.
So they need another demand lever to pull. A refresh is one very good demand lever to pull at that time.

unless the refresh can be done in a way that it actually LOWERs mfring costs so significantly that it pays for itself quickly... But I doubt that. The refresh is likely costly and that investment will better payoff when it is used to generate demand after the tax credit is cut in half.

If they hadn't constrained themselves on S/X battery supply for the year, I would hope that they could do the refresh early and milk the full tax credit for as much as possible in second half of 2018 by generating more demand, and more supply, of S and X. But it seems they can't because they limited their battery supply for s and x to ~100k for the year.

The shrinking tax credit, and model 3 exposure, and long model 3 wait times for new buyers, is likely all the demand generation they need to sell that 100k of fixed supply of S and X.

I think we'll see an orchestrated effort to extend the 7500 federal tax credit through the end of the year (by timing deliveries to coincide with the 200k delivery in the US first week of July)... Let S and X demand become pent up by not letting them contribute to the 200k and holding off on deliveries...Then pump out S and X with a refreshed interior and exterior and refreshed price point (price increase) along with 5k Model 3s per week (long range only, dual drive and performance availability also) through the end of December.

 

[R.S]

It’s still the only real premium option today. A year? I’d like to know which manufacturer will definitively have their EV’s on the road and in dealerships by then. They talk big ie. Porsche, VW, BMW, Merc. BMW is supposed to have 4 models all EV in 2019. No hint of any production process there!

Not to mention access to any supercharger network? For true EV competition to occur, a consumer will also look at charging and range...not just the car or brand.

I'm pretty sure BMW is not going to have 4 EVs by 2019 and I have never heard that. The Jaguar is basically a done deal, I guess some still call it "this summer vaporware", but I guess I can already hear some faint compliancy car comments, so I guess the idea of the I-Pace being a car you can buy has settled in.

The Audi and Porsche hav been spotted multiple times in different forms of prototype cars and so is the BMW iX3 (the only one I think BMW will have in 2019, unless you add the i3 and a Mini EV), Mercedes will have the EQC by 2019, too.

BMW is just the only car company left that doesn't need to reveal EVs two years in advance.

And of course by Q2 2019 electrify America and various charging networks in Europe should have built, or in the case of EA must have built, a pretty stable 150 kW+ charging network.

IMO this year, or next would be a good time to refresh the S and X, to get ahead of upcoming competitors. And 6-7 years of production is the industry standard, right now.

 

[iffatall]

The funny part is that I realized I really do not need the SC network - but only after 3 years of ownership. In these 3 years, I did a trip to Chicago (~400 mile one way) 3 times - and each time just because I enjoyed my P85D much more than my wife's old G37 coupe. The SC was key to be able to do that, and the added time for charging (~60 min per leg) did not seem unbearable.

This year we changed both cars - got a Model 3 and a Merc E-coupe. We love both - each of them has advantages and disadvantages; in fact we both hesitate which car to take - just because both are great. But that makes my potential trip one to be done in the Merc - it is simply smoother, and surprisingly a more quiet ride (despite the ICE). So at this time, SC is not important to me.

For those who travel a lot, or have a single car, SC is of course a tremendous advantage. For others like myself, the Jag does not seem a bad proposition, even without the charging network.

But then, if I understand you correctly, your focus is not really on the "long range" aspect of the iPace. The point I was trying to make was in reference to people/analysts suggesting this is the first long range luxury EV to compete with MS, with stress on long range. Without a robust fast charging network, I doubt the long range aspect is really a competition. The luxury, quietness aspects certainly can be. (Hence this thread, right?)

Aren't there other (hybrid, plugins?) luxury cars that are already in competition in those aspects? iPace is hardly the first there.

 

[Thud]

Does anyone have a good example of a refresh gone wrong? There are too many to list from other car manufacturers.

The BMW 5-series. It peaked with the brilliant E39 (4th generation) and has gotten worse and more bloated with each redesign. And let's not forget the horrible angel-wing taillights of the 5th gen model.