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Model S range and interior update imminent?

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There you said it. Everyone else is playing catch-up.

Honestly I don’t expect anything decent from legacy manufacturers. Their ICE vehicle bring in more $$$. New EV startups is where it’s at. Too bad odds are against them.
Yup, and part of the problem will be how to advertise them without negatively affecting existing ICE sales. How can you tout an EV 3-series as being faster, quieter with zero gas costs and far fewer maintainence costs...without making an ICE 3er look like a bad buy? Now realize that Tesla will already have a $35ish Model 3 that competes directly and BMW will then be forced to price it near that price to compete!
 
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Yup, and part of the problem will be how to advertise them without negatively affecting existing ICE sales. How can you tout an EV 3-series as being faster, quieter with zero gas costs and far fewer maintainence costs...without making an ICE 3er look like a bad buy? Now realize that Tesla will already have a $35ish Model 3 that competes directly and BMW will then be forced to price it near that price to compete!
Because not everyone wants or cares about EVs, not everyone has the ability to charge or plan trips around charging. Some people really don't care. Some people want the sounds of an engine, some people don't mind changing oil nor feel inconvenienced filling up a gas tank. Not everyone wants to take a depreciation hit like a Tesla and EV carry, see 3 year old Teslas that sold for 130K are now less than 60K. My car that was in the 80s is worth half that 3 years later. How much will it cost to replace a motor in one of these or a battery? will they actually last the reported time? who actually knows. Tesla is know not to do much real world testing and even companies that do millions of miles of testing still have issues. The world of EVs is still unknown and ICE vehicles aren't going anywhere anytime soon.


Not everyone has the same feelings as most Tesla owners, people seem to forget that.
 
Because not everyone wants or cares about EVs, not everyone has the ability to charge or plan trips around charging. Some people really don't care. Some people want the sounds of an engine, some people don't mind changing oil nor feel inconvenienced filling up a gas tank. Not everyone wants to take a depreciation hit like a Tesla and EV carry, see 3 year old Teslas that sold for 130K are now less than 60K. My car that was in the 80s is worth half that 3 years later. How much will it cost to replace a motor in one of these or a battery? will they actually last the reported time? who actually knows. Tesla is know not to do much real world testing and even companies that do millions of miles of testing still have issues. The world of EVs is still unknown and ICE vehicles aren't going anywhere anytime soon.


Not everyone has the same feelings as most Tesla owners, people seem to forget that.
True, but the same arguments can be made for ICE vehicles too. Have you seen the depreciation values for Mercedes AMGs? Yikes! The BMW 5er loses over HALF it's value within THREE years as does the E-class! (These Are the Fastest Depreciating Cars on the Market) As far as changing trips around charging, I have a vacation home in Maine where at some points I'd have to either go a good hour between gas stations on the turnpike or get off and search out a gas station in East Bumf*ck. But again, between Tesla and other eventual EV makers charging stations will be everywhere without question probably within 5 years.

As far as engine noise, it's already been resolved with MANY companies piping in fake sounds via the stereo system. And battery replacement, well that same issue is true for the Prius and they've managed to sell over 4 MILLION of them. As it is, costs are going down yearly and Tesla guarantees them for 8 years regardless. If as you say "the world of EVs are unknown" then why would Porsche, BMW, Benz, Audi and VW opt to go all in on them spending billions in the process?
 
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Because not everyone wants or cares about EVs, not everyone has the ability to charge or plan trips around charging. Some people really don't care. Some people want the sounds of an engine, some people don't mind changing oil nor feel inconvenienced filling up a gas tank. Not everyone wants to take a depreciation hit like a Tesla and EV carry, see 3 year old Teslas that sold for 130K are now less than 60K. My car that was in the 80s is worth half that 3 years later. How much will it cost to replace a motor in one of these or a battery? will they actually last the reported time? who actually knows. Tesla is know not to do much real world testing and even companies that do millions of miles of testing still have issues. The world of EVs is still unknown and ICE vehicles aren't going anywhere anytime soon.


Not everyone has the same feelings as most Tesla owners, people seem to forget that.

I'm always amazed how many non EV drivers want to tell us all about EVs. Once you buy one and actually start to use it you find the convenience of charging at home so far outweighs the convenience of fast refills on gas that there is just simply no comparison. My wife's Kia Soul EV she prefers even over anything else she's had. And of course, I love my Tesla! Until you own an EV and driven it for some time, you can never understand it. And this comes from a guy who loved his Chevy Super Sport most of all the vehicles he's ever owned, until this.

Besides all that, social pressure will kill the ice vehicle. It'll soon be considered to be on the level of smoking cigarettes. Especially with the new generation. When I drive down the street, and my Tesla is 4 years old, I hear kids screaming all the time "It's the future, it's the future!"
 
I'm always amazed how many non EV drivers want to tell us all about EVs. Once you buy one and actually start to use it you find the convenience of charging at home so far outweighs the convenience of fast refills on gas that there is just simply no comparison. My wife's Kia Soul EV she prefers even over anything else she's had. And of course, I love my Tesla! Until you own an EV and driven it for some time, you can never understand it. And this comes from a guy who loved his Chevy Super Sport most of all the vehicles he's ever owned, until this.

Besides all that, social pressure will kill the ice vehicle. It'll soon be considered to be on the level of smoking cigarettes. Especially with the new generation. When I drive down the street, and my Tesla is 4 years old, I hear kids screaming all the time "It's the future, it's the future!"
Perfectly stated, there truly are no environmental advantages I can see to ICE vehicles as they contribute to smog and air pollution. Heck, it would even help to eliminate accidental and suicidal carbon monoxide poisoning!
 
Yup, and part of the problem will be how to advertise them without negatively affecting existing ICE sales. How can you tout an EV 3-series as being faster, quieter with zero gas costs and far fewer maintainence costs...without making an ICE 3er look like a bad buy? Now realize that Tesla will already have a $35ish Model 3 that competes directly and BMW will then be forced to price it near that price to compete!
By discontinuing the ICE version.
I don't mind:D
 
Because not everyone wants or cares about EVs, not everyone has the ability to charge or plan trips around charging. Some people really don't care. Some people want the sounds of an engine, some people don't mind changing oil nor feel inconvenienced filling up a gas tank. Not everyone wants to take a depreciation hit like a Tesla and EV carry, see 3 year old Teslas that sold for 130K are now less than 60K. My car that was in the 80s is worth half that 3 years later. How much will it cost to replace a motor in one of these or a battery? will they actually last the reported time? who actually knows. Tesla is know not to do much real world testing and even companies that do millions of miles of testing still have issues. The world of EVs is still unknown and ICE vehicles aren't going anywhere anytime soon.


Not everyone has the same feelings as most Tesla owners, people seem to forget that.
High depreciation is only because they are expensive cars.
They are better than other cars in their price range
How do Teslas Depreciate Compared to Competitors? | 3F EV - UK's Foremost Tesla Rental Company
Tesla Model S retains its value better than gas-powered cars in its segment, losing only 28% after 50k miles
 
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True, but the same arguments can be made for ICE vehicles too. Have you seen the depreciation values for Mercedes AMGs? Yikes! The BMW 5er loses over HALF it's value within THREE years as does the E-class! (These Are the Fastest Depreciating Cars on the Market) As far as changing trips around charging, I have a vacation home in Maine where at some points I'd have to either go a good hour between gas stations on the turnpike or get off and search out a gas station in East Bumf*ck. But again, between Tesla and other eventual EV makers charging stations will be everywhere without question probably within 5 years.

As far as engine noise, it's already been resolved with MANY companies piping in fake sounds via the stereo system. And battery replacement, well that same issue is true for the Prius and they've managed to sell over 4 MILLION of them. As it is, costs are going down yearly and Tesla guarantees them for 8 years regardless. If as you say "the world of EVs are unknown" then why would Porsche, BMW, Benz, Audi and VW opt to go all in on them spending billions in the process?

A Corolla or Versa doesn't depreciate anywhere near as fast as a Leaf or any other tesla. And that's another problem, people continue to compare tesla and whoever else to AMG and whatnot, really? america isn't buying AMGs they're buying Civic and Corolla and F150s. Tesla is "dominating" the luxury car market, not really, they are dominating the EV market lately but they're also thrown into the luxury market. I came from an compact car and F250 to the Tesla, It wasn't a matter of AMG, A8, 7 Series or Tesla it was a corolla or long range EV, who's was selling long range EVs in 2016? No one but tesla, and still the Bolt is the only one that comes close.
 
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I'm always amazed how many non EV drivers want to tell us all about EVs. Once you buy one and actually start to use it you find the convenience of charging at home so far outweighs the convenience of fast refills on gas that there is just simply no comparison. My wife's Kia Soul EV she prefers even over anything else she's had. And of course, I love my Tesla! Until you own an EV and driven it for some time, you can never understand it. And this comes from a guy who loved his Chevy Super Sport most of all the vehicles he's ever owned, until this.

Besides all that, social pressure will kill the ice vehicle. It'll soon be considered to be on the level of smoking cigarettes. Especially with the new generation. When I drive down the street, and my Tesla is 4 years old, I hear kids screaming all the time "It's the future, it's the future!"

Is this supposed to be direct at me? I put 25K on my Tesla this year alone. I put 2,500 miles a month on the Leaf before I got rid of it in March. And I also spend 800- $1,000 a week in diesel when I'm driving the truck so yes, I know who both side work very well.
 
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Autolist found the following amounts of depreciation after 50,000 miles: Let's Look Into The Resale Value Of A Tesla Model S
  • Tesla Model S: 28%
  • Lexus LS 460: ~32%
  • Mercedes S-class: ~36%
  • Porsche Panamera: ~37%
  • BMW 7 Series: 40%
  • Audi A8: 40+%
  • Jaguar XJ: 41%

Assuming 50,000 miles is about a 3 year old car, that 28% depreciation figure for the Model S makes absolutely no sense. Try 50% given that a $125,000 Model S bought in 2015 is now worth the late 50s or early 60s.

Is this one of the studies that went by unrealistic asking price of cars they found listed rather than actual sold prices?
 
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Deprecation of a Tesla is also affected by the rebates and incentives that are on it. In my state a $100k Tesla only costs the equivalent of a $86k ICE.

Comparing the deprecation of a Tesla S to a Corolla or a Versa is just nonsense though.
 
Deprecation of a Tesla is also affected by the rebates and incentives that are on it. In my state a $100k Tesla only costs the equivalent of a $86k ICE.

Comparing the deprecation of a Tesla S to a Corolla or a Versa is just nonsense though.
I'm comparing all EVs not just tesla. Which relates to the discussion of what people might not buy an EV in general, not just Teslas.
 
A Corolla or Versa doesn't depreciate anywhere near as fast as a Leaf or any other tesla. And that's another problem, people continue to compare tesla and whoever else to AMG and whatnot, really? america isn't buying AMGs they're buying Civic and Corolla and F150s. Tesla is "dominating" the luxury car market, not really, they are dominating the EV market lately but they're also thrown into the luxury market. I came from an compact car and F250 to the Tesla, It wasn't a matter of AMG, A8, 7 Series or Tesla it was a corolla or long range EV, who's was selling long range EVs in 2016? No one but tesla, and still the Bolt is the only one that comes close.
I compared them because size-wise and price-wise they compete directly, as the OP was comparing depreciation between EVs and ICE vehicles. Tesla competes in the luxury market, regardless of what you may think of overall quality, their entry level vehicle inevitably will be priced at approx. $35k which is 3-series, C-class and A4 ballpark in both size and price. Mind you, they are having zero problem selling it at $50k right now. The same with the Model X and S...both are lux priced vehicles. Honestly, if they didn't compete with luxury makes, then why is every lux maker now responding? They aren't doing it because of Leaf, Volt or Prius sales that's for sure. And Porsche already stated who they were aiming for.
 
Assuming 50,000 miles is about a 3 year old car, that 28% depreciation figure for the Model S makes absolutely no sense. Try 50% given that a $125,000 Model S bought in 2015 is now worth the late 50s or early 60s.

Is this one of the studies that went by unrealistic asking price of cars they found listed rather than actual sold prices?
ALL premium priced vehicles take a bigger hit than the lower priced and higher volume version of the same model. I don't even need to look to know that the $125k version of the Model S had far lower sales than the base or midrange version did.
 
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