SucreTease
Teslarian
It was by any measure. It was simply a change to the bumper cover and (I think) a subtle change to headlamp shape.
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Model S range and interior update imminent?
- Thread starter Thorbjorn
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iqless
Member
SucreTease
Teslarian
What back-and-forth changes do you claim have been made to products and equipment?
It depends if people like the changes or not. Some people will hate the changes and want to buy one of the last "good" S/X vehicles.
iqless
Member
It doesn't matter how subtle the change is - as long as it's very easily identifiable as being the newer model, the old one is going to take a hit no matter what. And I'd say that the removal of the nosecone changed the front of the car more than a regular mid-cycle facelift from MB, BMW, or Audi.
iqless
Member
See my above post - I mostly disagree. While there are going to be a lot of people like you said, most people will just want the 'prestige' that comes with having an easily identifiably new car. Like, if you have a 2020 refresh S, you have to have bought it very new and must be rich - but if you have an old-facelift one you could have easily been a peasant who bought an 2016 car, or good heavens, with the... and I can't bring myself to say this disgusting word.... nosecone that bought one from 2013, which means it's surprising that you have a roof above your head, and you must be surviving on ramen.(*)
I honestly think the nosecone looks better, and I think there are a LOT of people who agree, but the facelift commands such an obvious price increase when buying used Teslas.
(*) these are all jokes, I've only owned nosecone Teslas
Once again, I find myself agreeing with you, until you add a glib generality suggesting that those who have a different opinion, are somehow hypocritical or less worthy. My next comment has to do with Tesla in general, not specific to the refresh. I like your reference to “cake and eating it too.” I support Tesla’s mission. I’ve learned a lot more about sustainability in the 4+ years of owning one. But when I retire in 2-3 yrs, I literally can’t afford to buy the “cake” unless it won’t go bad before I am able to eat it. In other words, Tesla will have to live up to its claims of durability, reliability, and, oh, “sustainability.”
And like the last exchange we had “customer service,” applies here as well. Tesla has to find the right balance between profitability, mission (product), and customer satisfaction. I don’t pretend to know where that is, but I think they are on many edges of the cliff at once. One of those is customer sat.
This like ventilated seat availability, FSD and other interior options coming and going. But of course the biggest set of changes have been promotional and pricing in nature and that is pure insanity from a customer perspective.
SucreTease
Teslarian
I will grant you that Tesla has played around a great deal with pricing and enticements, but that goes on all over retail. Memorial Day sales, Summer blow-out sales, etc. Holy cow, man! When is the last time you walked into a supermarket or a furniture store?This like ventilated seat availability, FSD and other interior options coming and going. But of course the biggest set of changes have been promotional and pricing in nature and that is pure insanity from a customer perspective.
Ventilated seats were not arbitrarily dropped and added. They were dropped the first time because of problems with tearing and peeling (Bjorn made video about this); perhaps also because there were lots of complaints about them not working well. Tesla did well to withdraw them until they fixed these problems. The were later reintroduced in the P100D only, but later discontinued for unknown reasons; I can only presume because of other problems.
What back-and-forth are you claiming with regards to FSD?. They moved the "E" part of EAP into FSD, and that change persists. How is that back-and-forth?
You can't just change the dashboard, without looking at the rest of the interior. It has to be aesthetically cohesive. The industrial design people would completely lose their minds if they were told - "just change the dash" and don't worry about anything else.
I agree. Elon is simply saying there will not be a “refresh” (a major change in appearance, inside or out) to the S/X in the near future.
Which I think is a smart move. Tesla still has no meaningful competition in the markets the S/X competes with. The Jaguar I-Pace and AUDI e-Tron do not compete with the S/X in terms of range, power, cargo capacity, energy efficiency, Auto Pilot-like features, or ease of long distance travel. There is no reason for Tesla to invest in an S/X refresh this year. Yes, sales were down in the Q1 2019 but they are trending back up, and the EV sedan/SUV market in the $100K price range is finite. It is unrealistic to expect that cars that costly can continue to experience large sales volume increases indefinitely. I remain amazed that Tesla can sell as many S/X as they currently are producing.
Tesla needs to focus on increasing Model 3 volumes and reducing production costs as well as bringing the Y and then the Truck to market. Tesla will of course continue to incrementally improve the S/X, just like they have been doing ever since they started production of those models. That won’t stop. I owned a 2013 Model S, and current cars are light years beyond what I found amazing 6 years ago. And those improvements have nothing to do with a “refreshed” front bumper and some minor cosmetic changes to the interior.
A successful business cannot focus on only one thing. They need to be able to keep several balls in the air. And the S interior needs to be fixed up. It's got too many glaring shortcomings compared to the 3 - some of them quite minor and that could be dealt with piecemeal. I'm thinking about door pockets, coat hooks. And even the silly gap between the main dash and the console that stuff forever gets lost in. There are others of course.
The fact that they haven't done these things means that they're intending to deal with them in one shot. And that makes sense. You want a clean and cohesive interior - not one that looks like it was patched over with layers of duct-tape.
I´m sure Tesla has great reasons internally for the things they do, my point was the very unexpected and chaotic nature of it all from the perspective of a buyer trying to make a purchase.
FSD was also dropped entirely in the autumn of 2018 for a time.
The only recourse really one has is research and peer support. Getting this type of insight from Tesla is a tools errand. Hence we have threads like this — for a need.
I hope they took comments here and possibly from other vectors about the leaked changes to heart and are reconsidering the interior.
From an engineering perspective it was.
I tend to disagree with your statement here iqless, even though for personal reasons I would love to agree with you. I sold my P90D last month thinking there was a new refresh coming in September and it would afford me an opportunity to have both a new looking model S (inside and out) and possibly an increase of range from the current 370 mile Raven model. In trying to remain objective, and updating my prognostications in lieu of Elon's latest tweets, I think I was wrong. And why should I try to fight for my previous ideas? It makes much more sense that things will stay about the same for the next year or two as Tesla fights other battles.
With that said, here are the reasons why is why I disagree with your comments. I believe current model S and X sales are about where they should be, in lieu of the model 3's existence. Would sales of the model S be better with a refreshed interior, or updated fenders/bumpers, headlights, and taillights? No doubt! Of course they would. I don't think anybody disputes that. But if the conversation is about trying to achieve previous sales numbers that I think this is a different conversation altogether. Taking that position for a moment, I think outside of new battery tech giving 500+ miles of range along with a major redesign of the chassis and frame (which would probably be necessary), you're just not gonna see the sales levels approaching what they were previously. I also think even if they should drop the model S/X price by $25,000, they would still not see sales levels as they were two years ago. And why should they? By far the larger market is for the model three because it is such a great value, full stop. It's half the price, has great range, safety, and technology. It arguably is the car that gives people the most value for their dollar.
I believe Tesla understands this all too well, probably better than most of us. And when you consider all of the efforts energy and creativity needed to get the model Y, the pickup truck, and semi programs online, it would seem reasonable to presume that most engineering efforts need to be prioritized to these programs. It's quite reasonable to believe the current model S/X, at least for the short term (12 to 24 months), will only benefit from minor updates. Pouring a lot more money into these programs right now seems very inefficient of resources. Tesla borrows heavily to stay alive and complete the mission to move all automobile manufacturers to BEV's.
In summary, big changes are going to have to wait. I think people like boondocks and others like him who decided to already purchase a Raven model will be proven as making good and rational decisions. My two cents.
The S headlights took a turn for the worse when they went LED. It's not that LED can't be done right but in this case there weren't done right. The pre LED HIDs were perfectly even with a nice sharp cutoff at the top. The LED spill pattern on the S is a mess.
Count me in the group that thinks Tesla is doing the right thing by focusing all engineering efforts on the new platforms. It's where all the volume will be. S/X had artificially high sales volumes pre-3 because they were the only good EV on the market, so people stretched to buy one. Now they will settle into a more traditional niche sales volume like the S7 is for Audi, 6 series for BMW, etc. No refresh needed, at least until after the Y, pickup, roadster launch.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
You’ve adequately described the visual modifications, but that refresh came with LOTS of under the hood changes and part revisions, so much so that Tesla publishes a completely different catalog for the post-refresh S.
Certainly not a full-platform refresh or anything, but far from just a visual facelift too.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Interesting reading... https://electrek.co/2019/07/09/tesla-mysterious-production-capacity-increase/
The company is “making preparations” to raise output at its auto plant in Fremont, California, Tesla’s automotive president, Jerome Guillen, said in an email to employees on Tuesday. “While we can’t be too specific in this email, I know you will be delighted with the upcoming developments.” The executive also commented on Tesla’s production output, efficiency, and quality over the last quarter. Bloomberg report:
Guillen’s message also said that the company “hit new records in all production lines for output and efficiency” in the most recent quarter, both in Fremont and in Nevada, and that “quality is also reaching record highs.”
The company is “making preparations” to raise output at its auto plant in Fremont, California, Tesla’s automotive president, Jerome Guillen, said in an email to employees on Tuesday. “While we can’t be too specific in this email, I know you will be delighted with the upcoming developments.” The executive also commented on Tesla’s production output, efficiency, and quality over the last quarter. Bloomberg report:
Guillen’s message also said that the company “hit new records in all production lines for output and efficiency” in the most recent quarter, both in Fremont and in Nevada, and that “quality is also reaching record highs.”
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