DanCar
Active Member
A battery upgrade is far from a refresh. Elon did say it won't be long before 400 mile range comes.
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Model S range and interior update imminent?
- Thread starter Thorbjorn
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cablue
Member
I sure hope something changes on the S SOON! I've had my S since 2013. I've been patiently waiting for a refresh, with my hopes dissipating. Getting another S with no real change on the interior or exterior - other than the nose cone - is hard for me to do. Yes, there are obviously changes otherwise between my '13 and the newer ones, but I could not get a sunroof, even, if I ordered one now, which I love having. Car colors are so limited, too. I keep waiting, but i'm losing patience.
Model S sales have dropped ~50% compared to last year, at least in the US. Given the easy availability of the Model 3 now, the tax break loss, and new EV competition from Europe, I'd bet Elon is happy it's still selling this well. My guess is they will milk it for a while longer since there's always guys like me willing to spend extra for just the right look or some exclusivity. And focus 95% of their energy on expanding the lineup instead.
I don't see how they do a significant battery upgrade without a refresh given the redesign that would be necessary...
DanCar
Active Member
2170 batteries are 5 mm taller. Elon previously stated they can fit in existing battery space.
CraZ8
Member
And I thought I had it bad with my 2015. Well first quarter 2020 is the latest moved goalpost if you can hold out that long. ( we hope) So maybe6/7 months. I will also not trade in until the new interior makes its appearance
Tesla is contractually obligated to buy Panasonic 18650 cells...remember how making there own cells at the gigafactory was aborted, and to get Panasonic to pay for the capital investment needed to produce cells they had to sign a long term purchase agreement?! Powerwalls aren’t going to need to many since they seem to have run squarely into demandwall.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
DanCar
Active Member
If my memory is correct, there was a Q&A for Tesla gigafactory around its opening. Someone asked the question about existing cars, and Elon responded he believes they will fit.
The only times I have heard it asked they said the significant redesign wasn't worth the effort and would actually reduce performance. (You can pull more power from the 18650s.)
DanCar
Active Member
One of the recent quarterly investor Q&A calls. (Probably 2 or 3 ago.) I don't have access to transcripts, and I don't have time to listen to them for you right now, so if you really want to know just listen to them. (Or find transcripts.)
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
I attended the grand opening event at the Gigafactory and don't recall this discussion...
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
This is some shaky-ass support for a rather extraordinary claim. I can’t find a single supporting piece of evidence after a good 10 minutes of google keyword sleuthing, and given the scrutiny all of Elon’s gaseous emissions receive in the media, it seems inconceivable that you’re the only one who heard this.
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I believe Tesla has bought enough 18650s to fulfill the contract. When Jason Hughes tore down the first Model S pack, he thought there was enough room for the 2170s, but there are rumored leaks from within Tesla that say they won't work. It seems Tesla is sticking with 18650s for now, but that doesn't prevent them from making 18650s with the new chemistry at the GigaFactory if they wanted to.
The equipment there now is for 2170s, but if Tesla starts producing their own batteries they will have to buy their own equipment anyway.
This isn't the one I recall but JB Straubel talked about it in the Q4'2017 earnings conference call: Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the 2019 Investors' Roundtable
You can listen here: https://edge.media-server.com/mmc/p/iufenmyd (Start at 26:54)
Here is someone else that remembers Tesla saying that the 2170s would have lower performance. Why Model S/X will not see 2170 cells any time soon.
And a tweet from Elon talking about 2170s being for cost and not performance: Elon Musk on Twitter
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Dithermaster
Member
The Performance model has the two carbon fiber interior options. Perhaps that is what this means?
When did he say that? As far as I know the last statement was, that they won’t change the cell form factor for S and X. Other than that I haven’t seen Elon ever talking about 2170s and the S/X
It is interesting that if there is some battery trade off between power and range (and/or power and longevity, charging speed, etc.) Then one easy solution would be ultracapacitors, since even though they are bulky, you can fit them in akwardly sized unused space and you only need
enough to augment power for the period after the fixed torque period meets the power limit up until the motor back EMF starts. In other words, in the beginning it takes time to reach the max power and in the end the motors spin too fast to use max power but in between there is currently a time when the car is not traction limited but could use the extra power. Maxwell anyone?
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