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Model S range options - would you pay for more than 160miles?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Palpatine, Mar 27, 2009.

  1. Palpatine

    Palpatine Banned

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    I think most people will be fine with a 220 volt 30 amp charger at home.

    42kWh pack (160 mile range) = about 7 hours
    70kWh pack (230 mile range) = about 12 hours

    So even with the 70 kWh battery you will start each day with a full battery using an outlet that any home electrician can install easily.

    I have read on the Tesla owners website that many owners are getting bills for several thousand dollar to upgrade their garages to handle the 70 amp HPC. For Tesla Roadster owners, that is not a big deal. But if EVs are going more mainstream, home charging is going to be limited to that of a standard dryer at 220 volt 30 amps.

    I am not sure which battery I would select. It depends on if the extra weight significantly degrades performance. I think I would be fine with the 160 miles range at 42 kWh.
     
  2. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Supreme Premier

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    ... as about 80% of all customers will be.

    This will be a nice "voting with wallets" as to what range an EV really needs.

    It is easy to shout from behind a computer screen "not enough range". When time comes to pay real money people will stop, think and decide on what they really need and are willing to pay for. Are those additional 100 miles they would use maybe once a year really worth additional 10k USD?
     
  3. Cobos

    Cobos S60 owner since 2013

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    Actually I would say Tesla is killing this idea themselves. They say you can technically rent a larger battery for a limited time. That will handle my 2-3 longer trips each year.

    What you might see though is that someone decides they really need 300miles to feel "safe" and that is too expensive. This swanky Volt though standing on the other side of the street looks really good.... But those customers are probably lost anyway for Tesla, but for me that care about the enviroment as well it's still a win....

    What I see the Model S is doing is getting a completely different set of people to seriously look at an electric car for the first time. They might be surprised.

    Cobos
     
  4. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

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    For me .... I need the 230 mile pack at a minimum. It is 200 miles from my house to work and then to our beach house and I make that trip SEVERAL times over the summer. Depending on the cost difference I may even go with the 300 mile pack just far a little more safety cushion. However if we did not have the beach house the 160 mile version would be just fine. My daily commute during non summer hours is only about 50 miles. 25 in each direction.
     
  5. Palpatine

    Palpatine Banned

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    I agree. My mother is 65 yrs old and would never consider the Roadster or Aptera. But she and her husband are the types to drive a Mercedes or other luxury vehicle. We have been exchanging emails about the Model S and she is leaning towards putting down a $5,000 deposit if Tesla gets the US gov't loan approved. That is all she is waiting for. She figures if they get the US gov't loan then the car will likely be delivered.
     
  6. mt2

    mt2 Member

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    #6 mt2, Mar 27, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2009
    For me, the "swanky volt" is a $40,000 Malibu. The $17,000 difference in the MSRP is a lot of coin, but if I'm paying more than $30,000 for a car, I'm not settling for a Volt. No compromises.

    I figure I'll be putting in my deposit this summer when the Chicago store opens and I can soften up my wife. We'll see how the specs change from now till then, but right now I'm looking at 230 miles. The 300 mile option is still speculation on Telsa's part (my opinion), and I'm hoping some of these battery breakthroughs we keep reading about will find their way to market by late 2011. I'm hoping that there might be a better option by the time I'm ready to lock in.

    Even if it's not, battery (supercap?) technology has to improve during the lifespan of the car. By the time I'm ready to retire for real (I intend to take early retirement and do consulting for a few years), the battery swap option might make a lot more sense than getting a new car.
     
  7. Brick

    Brick Member

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    Volt is a stretch for a lean/strong auto company... I hope it makes it but every part of this car is an engineering challenge. We will see. I agree the price is insane!
     
  8. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #8 TEG, Mar 28, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2009
    (This space intentionally left blank)
     
  9. jtibble

    jtibble Tesla Evangelist

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    I would like to direct your attention to the following website where you can easily see how large a 160, 230, or 300 mile circle is around your home or permanent residence:
    Mapping and Distance Tools

    From my parents' house location, I made this map (which shows you could easily reach either Chicago or Detroit from where they live).
     

    Attached Files:

  10. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #10 stopcrazypp, Mar 28, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2009
    Thanks, I've been trying to find a good driving radius tool for a while (didn't really look really hard though).
     
  11. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

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    Thanks. But I did find that tool very hard to use. Just not intuitive at all. And I did notice that you have to be careful with it. Radius is as the crow flies not as the road drives. But it is close.
     
  12. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #12 stopcrazypp, Mar 28, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2009
    Radius Around a Point on a Map
    Found another one, might be better. A little buggy though.

    This one gives driving radius (rather than just actual radius) but it's limited to 30 miles max.
    http://maps.forum.nu/gm_driving_radius.html
     
  13. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    I hope there are a lot of charging stations at the edges of those circles.
     
  14. bobw

    bobw Tesla Reader

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    This may be a bit pedantic, but I think if you say it clearly you think more clearly.

    Charging stations don't go at the edges of the driving radius circles. They go at the centers. Your home charger is one of them.

    The set of your possible destinations is anywhere within your current circle, plus the centers of all the circles that intersect yours.

    That oft-discussed high power charging station midway between SF and LA might become a destination. It could have conference rooms, mini offices, and perhaps a coffin hotel in addition to a restaurant.
     
  15. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    I think vfx was pointing out that the circles are only useful for a one-way trip (and a long push home).

    If the circles are your car's full range, then the next circle's centre must be inside yours, not just an intersection of the edges.
     
  16. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes::wink:
     
  17. donauker

    donauker Member

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    The other thing to keep in mind is that you will need to shrink the circles a good bit for real world driving. Based on owner feedback the stated 244 mile range of the roadster is more like 180 when charging in standard mode and 200 when using range mode which results in warnings that use of this mode causes reduced life of the battery pack.
     
  18. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    Something else to point out. While most Roadster owners/drivers live in/near LA & SF, the market for the Model S will be much broader. I live in SW Missouri, the "big" town close to me has a population of 250k. St.Louis & Kansas City are over 230 miles from me, Tulsa is 180. And the closest Tesla dealership currently planned is going to be in Chicago 8 hours and 525 miles away. A quick run to my lake house, 60 miles away, might test the limits of a 160 mile pack depending upon conditions and a round trip to my parents home 105 miles away would be impossible without a recharage at their place.

    My point is, in a more rural area convenience charging is less available and travel distances tend to be a lot further and are usually at highway speeds.

    Now, that said, I have a wife who will have a car (non-EV, probably a hybrid). So I'll usually have a second choice for longer distance travel. That may allow me to designate the Model S as my commuter vehicle to keep the price lower, weight lower, and increase cargo space (presumably).

    I haven't decided yet, but there are multiple factors that will go into the decision...I'm just appreciative to have the choice. Unless the price is totally unacceptible I think I'll at least take the 230 mile range option. It opens a lot of options for me that might be somewhat riskier with only 160 mile range (130 miles in 3 years). But we'll see.
     
  19. mt2

    mt2 Member

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    Agreed. In fact, I believe that the 160 mile option is impractical for a five passenger luxury sedan. This is not a commuter car or weekend sports car. I firmly believe that the 230 mile option will be the most popular and the 160 mile option was created only to lower the base price.
     
  20. Cobos

    Cobos S60 owner since 2013

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    I live in Europe though, but I tend to first read this as 160km and think that's OK, and then 2 secs later I again for the umpteen time correct from km til miles.
    I beleive I would be satisfied with 100 miles range, but might be a little short, so hence a 160 mile range is plenty. So I'd rather add some more nice equipment than a bigger battery, especially since I beleive Tesla around that time will get a small shop in Oslo and then I got somewhere to rent an extra battery if I have the need. So among Europeans I think the 160 mile range will sell better.

    Cobos
     

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