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Model S Refresh and Existing Orders

Murbs

Member
Oct 6, 2016
248
219
Perth Western Australia
But I guess they are obliged to supply you with what you ordered, or face the consequences. I can't see that they would be obliged to provide you with something that you DIDN'T order?

That might be the case if the reason for Tesla not being able to supply the ordered car was because of an unforeseen circumstance or event. The critical point here is that Tesla knew exactly what it was going to do before the order was placed and accepted. This point changes everything.

If I was the ACCC, I'd be penalizing Tesla for unconscionable conduct and make them compensate all affected customers by paying them for the inconvenience of not having a car delivered to them for 12 months longer than the customer expected.
 

moa999

2020 3 SR+ MSM
Mar 4, 2020
718
521
Sydney, AUS
For everyone here who has ordered a new S or X before yesterday, you might want to download your order agreement from your Tesla account.

Which model though?

The Performance model is no longer available full stop, and the Plaid is a very different car (third motor and substantially quicker).

As for the LR, think it's specs have also changed albeit more mildly. Indeed the new S LR is faster than the 3 P.
 

Murbs

Member
Oct 6, 2016
248
219
Perth Western Australia
Which model though?

The Performance model is no longer available full stop, and the Plaid is a very different car (third motor and substantially quicker).

As for the LR, think it's specs have also changed albeit more mildly. Indeed the new S LR is faster than the 3 P.

It has been for Long Range and Performance S and X.
 

paulp

Active Member
Jul 23, 2015
2,814
1,301
Adelaide, Australia
That might be the case if the reason for Tesla not being able to supply the ordered car was because of an unforeseen circumstance or event. The critical point here is that Tesla knew exactly what it was going to do before the order was placed and accepted. This point changes everything.

If I was the ACCC, I'd be penalizing Tesla for unconscionable conduct and make them compensate all affected customers by paying them for the inconvenience of not having a car delivered to them for 12 months longer than the customer expected.
The authorities have ignored the fact that tesla are taking additional cash for ‘full self driving’ and ‘robo taxi’ knowing full well that it will never happen on those cars. Can’t see them getting off their chair over this matter.
 
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Tasdoc

Member
Mar 19, 2016
81
40
Melbourne
What Tesla have been doing is a classic "Bait and Switch" which is pretty much illegal in every jurisdiction

I'm pretty confident that a competent body such as the ACCC would find them guilty of misleading and deceptive conduct.

What Tesla should have done was close their order books for S and X last year and remove the ability to order these cars on their website. Their website ought to have stated something along the lines of "Model S and X orders are suspended until further notice. Please check back later for an update". Tesla chose not to do this and instead deliberately mislead everyone who subsequently placed an order.
Not exactly. The "bait and switch" trick is used to sell higher priced products that otherwise does not sell. I doubt that Tesla is going to have any trouble moving their new Model S.

I agree that they should have stopped accepting orders for the old MS, but IMO, it's not a big deal. You can always request a refund
 
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cafz

Member
Jul 17, 2020
333
302
Australia
If Tesla can't or won't hold up their end of the contract, they have to make you whole again.

That in all likelihood just means refunding you any money you're out, including interest. So you should certainly get your $150 back.

Also the ACCC don't find anyone guilty. They can take you to court, where they can try to prove their case in front of a judge.
 

moa999

2020 3 SR+ MSM
Mar 4, 2020
718
521
Sydney, AUS
Exactly. At worst your out $150 at what 1% interest for a few months.. Tesla have offered $2k for that.

While I'm sure some in Tesla HQ knew of the changes, wouldn't be surprised if no-one in Australia knew, particularly the salesman.

Tesla AU staff will be pretty unhappy that they only have the Model 3 to sell during all of 2021.
 

Brissienew

Member
Dec 9, 2014
381
137
Brisbane, Queensland
I would think Tesla is not going to sell too many new Model S? The refresh is like a LCI of BMW, except the model S is already 8 years old. Other manufacturers would have come up with an all new model, not just a refresh, and there is a significant price increase to boot!
 

Onshore

Member
Mar 8, 2020
145
135
SYD
I would think Tesla is not going to sell too many new Model S? The refresh is like a LCI of BMW, except the model S is already 8 years old. Other manufacturers would have come up with an all new model, not just a refresh, and there is a significant price increase to boot!


From electrek:


“Sources familiar with Tesla’s sale operations told Electrek that Tesla is now seeing a spike in Model S and Model X sales that hasn’t been seen since the release of the Model S P100D ‘Ludicrous’ four years ago.

Tesla is keeping numbers close to its chest, but channel checks show a massive increase in sales of the new vehicles despite the increase in price.”​
 

MC3OZ

Active Member
Jul 25, 2019
2,231
12,316
QLD Australia
I would think Tesla is not going to sell too many new Model S? The refresh is like a LCI of BMW, except the model S is already 8 years old. Other manufacturers would have come up with an all new model, not just a refresh, and there is a significant price increase to boot!

I think they have hit the all points which matter:-
  • New upgraded interior (yoke, door pockets, new air vents, horizontal screen, rear screen)
  • Reduced weight
  • Reduced drag
  • Better performance.,
  • Heat pump, faster charging etc.
They have managed to reduce drag with minimal changes to the exterior shape of the car, IMO that is good there was nothing wrong with the external shape.

So IMO more has changed than a typical refresh, sometimes a car can look different but under the covers it is the same drivetrain and suspension. For some cars, carmakers have managed to significantly improve the exterior look, but often that is because the original look was not that great.

Model S/X price has dropped a bit in recent years, that is because the cars were dated and Model 3/Y had some newer features.
The price increase essentially reverses that. These cars are well above my budget at this stage. the price will come down over the next few years, but i got a 3 and my wife will be getting a Y. If we win lotto, I'll get a Paid+ S, a Roadster and a bigger garage.
 

paulp

Active Member
Jul 23, 2015
2,814
1,301
Adelaide, Australia
I'm wondering if the long delay for NZ & Aus is because they might be intending on setting up Shanghai for the new Model S & X production? With the Model 3 & Y coming from there for our region going forward and the large demand in China, maybe that's the reason behind it?
This finance article from fool in the US probably explains it. The green credits are a massive part of tesla’s income, the majority in fact. They only get them in the USA.
Tesla's Profits Are Not From Selling Cars | The Motley Fool
 

Brissienew

Member
Dec 9, 2014
381
137
Brisbane, Queensland
think they have hit the all points which matter:-
, except an all new exterior. Perhaps Tesla is following Porsche 911’s formula, although the first generation Panamera only lasted 7 years. The model S has maintained the same exterior for more than 8 years other than some changes to the face/front a few years ago.
Anyway, time will tell if the changes are enough to keep the sales going.
My opinion on this does not really matter as the model s/x is beyond my budget, but IMHO the car is held back by not having a new exterior.
 
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moa999

2020 3 SR+ MSM
Mar 4, 2020
718
521
Sydney, AUS
Agreed..
The LR is much quicker now.. faster than the Model 3 P, which is no damm slouch.

And the Plaid. Well that's a supercar in sheep's clothing.
 

paulp

Active Member
Jul 23, 2015
2,814
1,301
Adelaide, Australia
, except an all new exterior. Perhaps Tesla is following Porsche 911’s formula, although the first generation Panamera only lasted 7 years. The model S has maintained the same exterior for more than 8 years other than some changes to the face/front a few years ago.
Anyway, time will tell if the changes are enough to keep the sales going.
My opinion on this does not really matter as the model s/x is beyond my budget, but IMHO the car is held back by not having a new exterior.
Given people still point and sometimes applaud, especially he you ger generation, than it could be that the shape is still well recieved
 

meloccom

Moderator Aus/NZ
Feb 11, 2008
2,346
1,244
Sydney Australia
I still get compliments about my 6 year old Model S. In many cases they are unaware that it’s an electric car.
I think the design has held up very well and the uptick in sales, if verified supports that. I think what held people back was the potential to miss out on the latest technology updates that were already going into other models such as new battery cells and heat pump.
 
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GrimRe

Member
Aug 18, 2019
203
196
Sydney, Australia
This finance article from fool in the US probably explains it. The green credits are a massive part of tesla’s income, the majority in fact. They only get them in the USA.
Tesla's Profits Are Not From Selling Cars | The Motley Fool

EV credits are not a material consideration. The article you are quoting is pure garbage. Tesla couldn't care less about Net Income other than to show they aren't going bankrupt. Its all about increasing supply to meet the demand.

The only metric that matters right now in the Tesla growth is cashflow from operations. If that's positive the more cars they sell the stronger their balance sheet gets. If its negative the more cars they sell the weaker it gets. Everything else is secondary and immaterial at this point. Maybe in 2031 when the growth has tapered we can revisit their Net Income and what constitutes it.

Oh btw, their cash flow from operations?

2017: -16M
2016: 2.1B
2019: 2.4B
2020: 5.9B

The reason that the Model S and Model X are delayed until 2022 is because they have gone from 2 lines to 1 combined line for S and X they need to scale up. It doesn't make any sense to send cars across the globe for the start of a production.
 

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