Model S refresh with bigger side repeater housing

[diplomat33]

Teslarati has some close up pics that appear to show the Model S refresh has bigger side repeater housing:

Tesla Model S refresh’s large side repeater cameras hint at intense FSD focus

Is this just a purely aesthetic change (different housing) or did Tesla upgrade the side repeater cameras? I wonder if this does hint at Tesla making some subtle upgrades to the sensors for better FSD?

 

[dckiwi]

This could be related to the challenges that FSD Beta has had in 'seeing' cross traffic at a distance when making turns.

If this is indeed a new sensor, they are going to have to retrofit a TON of Model 3s and Ys that have been shipping over the last few quarters. Every day that goes by without the 'right' sensor suite in place for FSD is another long line of retrofits.

EDIT: I also wonder how much of the FSD code has to be rewritten (or neural net retrained) when sensors are moved/added? Does all the labeling data go out the window? Presumably it changes the way the images are stitched together to create a full picture of what is happening around the car. Hopefully this is abstracted out at a very low level.

 

[diplomat33]

This could be related to the challenges that FSD Beta has had in 'seeing' cross traffic at a distance when making turns.

If there is a second camera in the housing pointing outward 90 degrees that would help to see cross traffic. But if it is still a standard housing with just a side repeater camera pointing backwards, that would not help with cross traffic.

 

[RTPEV]

This is certainly a huge speculation, but what about creating a slightly wider frame of view to be used as an alternative for side mirrors in the future?

 

[diplomat33]

This is certainly a huge speculation, but what about creating a slightly wider frame of view to be used as an alternative for side mirrors in the future?

Yes, that is a possibility. AFAIK, regulators still require side mirrors but the idea has been discussed to some day completely replace side mirrors with side repeater cameras.

 

[DanCar]

... If this is indeed a new sensor, they are going to have to retrofit a TON of Model 3s and Ys that have been shipping over the last few quarters. Every day that goes by without the 'right' sensor suite in place for FSD is another long line of retrofits.

As long as Tesla delivers on whatever promises were made with current sensor suite, no retrofit is required. Just because there are improvements doesn't mean Tesla has to retrofit.

 

[dckiwi]

As long as Tesla delivers on whatever promises were made with current sensor suite, no retrofit is required. Just because there are improvements doesn't mean Tesla has to retrofit.

Very true. So they just have to deliver on full robotaxi with current sensor suite

 

[serendipitous]

Very true. So they just have to deliver on full robotaxi with current sensor suite

Really? Is that what your contract said when you signed it and paid for FSD?

 

[dckiwi]

Really? Is that what your contract said when you signed it and paid for FSD?

Yes. The "Tesla Network" page even warned buyers that we could use our cars for paid ridesharing, but couldn't use it to transport friends and family. They promised *a lot*.

 

[DanCar]

Yes. The "Tesla Network" page even warned buyers that we could use our cars for paid ridesharing, but couldn't use it to transport friends and family. They promised *a lot*.

If you could post a copy of your contract, I'm interested.

 

[VT_EE]

Yes. The "Tesla Network" page even warned buyers that we could use our cars for paid ridesharing, but couldn't use it to transport friends and family. They promised *a lot*.

All contingent upon approval by regulators. If the system doesn’t get approved, they have an out clause.

 

[DanCar]

All contingent upon approval by regulators. If the system doesn’t get approved, they have an out clause.

No approval required in several jurisdictions like Arizona, Florida, I've heard Texas included also.

 

[dckiwi]

If you could post a copy of your contract, I'm interested.

Are you referring to the Order Agreement that we all sign when we purchase a Tesla? I'm sure you have a copy. It says nothing about FSD beyond the fact that I purchased 'Full Self Driving Capability'.

It also says nothing about how the Falcon Wing Doors or the navigation system works either. Does that mean Tesla has no obligation to ensure their functionality works as advertised?

All the unmet promises about FSD were in marketing content posted to their Web site. If you're saying that any commitments made outside the contract are meaningless, then why even deliver any FSD capabilities to customers who have purchased it?

 

[Hayseed_MS]

The rear fender flares out slightly more on the refresh and this could also be reason for the larger repeater?

 

[serendipitous]

All the unmet promises about FSD were in marketing content posted to their Web site.

Exactly.

 

[dckiwi]

Exactly.

So then what functionality *is* Tesla obligated to deliver to customers who have purchased it? Anything? Because by your standard, the Order Agreement has zero details about what FSD is.

 

[DanCar]

So then what functionality *is* Tesla obligated to deliver to customers who have purchased it? Anything? Because by your standard, the Order Agreement has zero details about what FSD is.

To honestly answer that question, a lawsuit would need to be filed and a judge would need to render his opinion.
Since there hasn't been much with dates, I suspect Tesla will just say: we are working on it, even if it is 2030. Although a judge could say there is a reasonable expectation that it gets done within a certain time frame.

 

[dckiwi]

Since there hasn't been much with dates, I suspect Tesla will just say: we are working on it, even if it is 2030.

Right, back to my original point - Tesla would be in a sticky situation if they DID start delivering significant FSD functionality only to newer cars with a newer sensor suite.

 

[serendipitous]

So then what functionality *is* Tesla obligated to deliver to customers who have purchased it? Anything? Because by your standard, the Order Agreement has zero details about what FSD is.

What you actually ordered just says "Autosteer on city streets" - which, at the moment, they seem happy to define as a level 2 feature. I'm sure they will exceed that in terms of what they give us early adopters, but I doubt they feel any obligation to perpetually provide any hardware features required to deal with an as-yet-unsolved-at-any-price problem in computational AI.

 

[dckiwi]

What you actually ordered just says "Autosteer on city streets" - which, at the moment, they seem happy to define as a level 2 feature. I'm sure they will exceed that in terms of what they give us early adopters, but I doubt they feel any obligation to perpetually provide any hardware features required to deal with an as-yet-unsolved-at-any-price problem in computational AI.

My contract says nothing about 'Autosteer on city streets' either - what makes you say that this is what I ordered, and not something else?

Unless you're just referring to what was on the Tesla web site at the time I ordered, which you have already dismissed because it is just 'marketing'.