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For an electric, adding all-wheel drive is a whole lot easier. I assume Fisker Karma is still being
fitted with PML Flightlink in-wheel electric motors. I assume Tesla avoided those because of cost
considerations, but I have no word of that. Inwheels should provide for the best performing traction
control and the Flightlink motors weigh no more than your standard disk brake system, providing for
zero weight costs electric motors. I'll try to verify Karma's use of Flightlinks.

PML Flight Link has never been discussed for the Karma and the company doesn't even still exist.

Yes you're right dpeilow; I believe Fisker is using in-wheel motors from a military application (can't remember the name at the moment). PML Flightlink did build an electric Mini Cooper using their technology as a demonstration piece (http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/07q1/pml_flightlink_electric_mini_cooper-car_news).
 
I believe Fisker is using in-wheel motors from a military application (can't remember the name at the moment).

Fisker never planned to use in-wheel motors.
Quantum...
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/09/1...m-purchase-order-to-produce-components-for-f/
6a00d8341c4fbe53ef01348710c870970c-800wi.png

Dual motors on either side of the differential...

(theBike45 got us to go off topic for this thread.)
 
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I get your point, but the analogy isn't very good. A weekend house is 100% for this special use. A car isn't a 100% special use for long road trips.

The focus should be on how you use the car 99.98% of the time, not the .02% of the time you'd need to go on some road trip. At a 250 mile range, it'll do almost any road trip I care about, such as a trip to the coast. A simple standard plug, left in from the time I get there until I leave (typically at least 24-36 hours if I'm there for a weekend) will typically recharge it enough for the trip back.

It's like complaining that your roadster can't carry a cubic yard of gravel the .02% of the time when you need to go to the landscaping store. It's a total WTF comment. If you that's your criteria, then why did you buy a roadster?

OK sorry for not giving the best analogy but I certainly go on drives in my current sports car ,roadster #EU502 on order!!

If you go back to the beginning of my reply then you see that I do think that Tesla have the range down so now they need to concentrate on charge time so for people, unlike you, whom like to take longer weekend road trips have an easier time. to do so. For example if one could have the current range but halve the current charge time then start in the morning drive till lunch have a nice long 1 1/2-2hr lunch then get going again until one hits dinner or hotel time. Very often with my wife and I we tend to drive about 400-450 miles per day. And I am already thinking of how I will be able to do this even with the roadster. the lunches will initially be longer than usual and the dinners later. So for me range is important and since both the Teslas are drivers cars I think my case is not alone. I do velive that they need to focus on how to get their charge times down so that the range can be doubled with less down time so to speak.

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As a fan of all wheel drive, I really hate to say this...

I'm so impressed with the Roadster's winter performance (due to the large battery weight over the rear wheels, TC and regen braking), if the Model S performs the same in winter weather, I no longer feel that all wheel drive is a necessity.

I'm assuming that the TC & regen braking will function the same on the Model S as the Roadster...to me, it is now a question of will the Model S's flat, evenly displaced (floor) battery config keep enough weight over (around) the rear wheels to help match the Roadster's performance...


Any thoughts?
The reps at the Detroit auto show said there is no plans for an awd on the Model S.
 
As a fan of all wheel drive, I really hate to say this...

I'm so impressed with the Roadster's winter performance (due to the large battery weight over the rear wheels, TC and regen braking), if the Model S performs the same in winter weather, I no longer feel that all wheel drive is a necessity.

I'm assuming that the TC & regen braking will function the same on the Model S as the Roadster...to me, it is now a question of will the Model S's flat, evenly displaced (floor) battery config keep enough weight over (around) the rear wheels to help match the Roadster's performance...


Any thoughts?


I do wonder how much of a role the weight in the rear plays. If there are others here who've driven RWD cars that have their mass up front (front engine) with winter tires, I'm curious to hear about their experiences. I'm assuming that even with a flat evenly-distributed battery pack in the Model S, that there'll still be more weight in the rear than there would be in an ICE RWD (front engine) vehicle.

I'm betting TC and winter tires have more to do with things than the weight. One of the biggest problems with RWD has been that if it slips, the rear end of the car will flail around (since it's pushing and there's no steering control). With TC, that's virtually eliminated.
 
You're probably right about the TC being the kingmaker in the Roadster's superior winter performance...I didn't include winter tires in the equation as I've always put winter tires on my RWD ICE vehicles...still, with unacceptable results imo.

I'm mostly drawing on my own RWD experience (Lexus GS 450h) combined with anecdotes from many of my rural clients...their tales of tractionless woe when driving their pickup trucks (even with some additional weight placed in the box...)

No weight = no go...



I do wonder how much of a role the weight in the rear plays. If there are others here who've driven RWD cars that have their mass up front (front engine) with winter tires, I'm curious to hear about their experiences. I'm assuming that even with a flat evenly-distributed battery pack in the Model S, that there'll still be more weight in the rear than there would be in an ICE RWD (front engine) vehicle.

I'm betting TC and winter tires have more to do with things than the weight. One of the biggest problems with RWD has been that if it slips, the rear end of the car will flail around (since it's pushing and there's no steering control). With TC, that's virtually eliminated.
 
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If Tesla is indeed no longer planning an AWD version (whereas previously they said they were), then my guess is that they've determined from the alphas that performance is so good without AWD that its minimal improvement is not worth the extra weight, complexity, and cost.
 
I'm so impressed with the Roadster's winter performance (due to the large battery weight over the rear wheels, TC and regen braking), if the Model S performs the same in winter weather, I no longer feel that all wheel drive is a necessity.

I too drive an AWD in the winter (currently an Infiniti G37x). I've driven AWD, 4WD, FWD, and RWD in the winter, and that list is in my order of preference. (Yes AWD is now at the top; the G37x integration of AWD with the stability control is excellent. A classic 4WD without front-back differential really waddles through corners.)

That said, I have had my Roadster out in the snow with summer tires and was simply astonished at how well it works. The traction control is amazing.

I remember driving RWD vehicles in the late 70's, and they are primitive in comparison with today's cars. No ABS, traction control, stability control, etc. If you hit the brakes hard the front wheels stop, steering control is totally gone, and into the snowbank (or a car) you go. If you start to slip going up a really greasy hill, you're going back down sideways (been there, done that). If you hit a patch of black ice while accelerating... well, once I got surprised by black ice on a 417 on-ramp; came out of 2-1/2 donuts going backwards at 70kph... amazingly no harm done!

You needed skill to safely drive a 70's RWD car in the winter, and back then that was all the choice you had.

Modern cars have the ABS, TC and stability control, and that makes all the difference. You don't lose steering when you brake. Your rear wheels don't fly out when you hit ice. So, in short, there isn't nearly as much difference as there used to be. All the things that made driving in snow a real skill in an RWD car have been fixed.

After discovering how amazingly good the Roadster's electric TC is, I'm now completely confident about driving a RWD Model S in an Ottawa winter.
 
Can anyone tell from the Model S Alpha drive video where the charge door is? They always seem to show the car from the right side with only brief glimpses of the left side of the car.

I think that question has been asked, and no one has identified it yet. From the videos, it doesn't look like there is a flap where there was one on the original demonstration prototype.
 
quelq' one could tell me in centimetres exact dimensions of the Tesla S: length ,width ,height thank you

Not sure how accurate... Probably subject to change... Also, these were specs for the demonstration prototype, so the production car really could be different, but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S
Length 196 in (~498 cm)

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2012-tesla-model-s4.htm
Width: 74.0 inches (~188 cm)
Height: 58.0 inches (~147 cm)
 
I concur completely Doug! (been there in the 70's & done all of that too)...the only hurdle that I see the TM needs to clear is to develop some sort of door gasket to keep the @#@$%**!! slush outta my Roadster's doorsills! :tongue::wink:


I too drive an AWD in the winter (currently an Infiniti G37x). I've driven AWD, 4WD, FWD, and RWD in the winter, and that list is in my order of preference. (Yes AWD is now at the top; the G37x integration of AWD with the stability control is excellent. A classic 4WD without front-back differential really waddles through corners.)

That said, I have had my Roadster out in the snow with summer tires and was simply astonished at how well it works. The traction control is amazing.

I remember driving RWD vehicles in the late 70's, and they are primitive in comparison with today's cars. No ABS, traction control, stability control, etc. If you hit the brakes hard the front wheels stop, steering control is totally gone, and into the snowbank (or a car) you go. If you start to slip going up a really greasy hill, you're going back down sideways (been there, done that). If you hit a patch of black ice while accelerating... well, once I got surprised by black ice on a 417 on-ramp; came out of 2-1/2 donuts going backwards at 70kph... amazingly no harm done!

You needed skill to safely drive a 70's RWD car in the winter, and back then that was all the choice you had.

Modern cars have the ABS, TC and stability control, and that makes all the difference. You don't lose steering when you brake. Your rear wheels don't fly out when you hit ice. So, in short, there isn't nearly as much difference as there used to be. All the things that made driving in snow a real skill in an RWD car have been fixed.

After discovering how amazingly good the Roadster's electric TC is, I'm now completely confident about driving a RWD Model S in an Ottawa winter.
 
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I think you hit the nail squarely on the head here Todd!

As long as TM can replicate the Roadster's winter performance, I'm good w/o AWD! :smile:

If Tesla is indeed no longer planning an AWD version (whereas previously they said they were), then my guess is that they've determined from the alphas that performance is so good without AWD that its minimal improvement is not worth the extra weight, complexity, and cost.