Model S Technical / Mechanical Issues

[ddruz]

I have a problem with the panorama roof. There is a tongue in front of the glasroof, which slides underneath the rubber sealing of the car-roof. But the tongue sucked the rubber sealing down until finally the tongue slides now obove the rubber sealing when cloesed. now i have heavy wind noises and fear the roof to leak wen it starts raining.

Have you notified your service center? They should be able to fix this for you.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

@SFOTurtle, you could try plugging out and reseating the fuse (51, as I recall, in the fourth column of the left fuse box) for the touchscreen.

As for the door handle, you may just have to get that (older design version) replaced. I had to get one replaced for the same symptoms back in June.

 

[SFOTurtle]

@SFOTurtle, you could try plugging out and reseating the fuse (51, as I recall, in the fourth column of the left fuse box) for the touchscreen.

As for the door handle, you may just have to get that (older design version) replaced. I had to get one replaced for the same symptoms back in June.

Thanks for the tip. No doubt on the door handle. After reading numerous posts on that during the day yesterday, I called and made a service appointment yesterday afternoon before leaving work and experiencing the other issues. This morning the screen seems back to normal and the service warning gone. I'm still going to call service and ask them to do a diagnostic on the 12V battery just to make sure it isn't starting to fail and causing the other problems.

 

[mal42north]

No, not a tesla employee, but Ive spent a lot of time working with precise opto-mechanical systems, mostly driven by linear motors of various types. When you are dealing with optics, and feedback control systems, mechanical resonances really^n matter.

 

[yobigd20]

No, not a tesla employee, but Ive spent a lot of time working with precise opto-mechanical systems, mostly driven by linear motors of various types. When you are dealing with optics, and feedback control systems, mechanical resonances really^n matter.

per wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_resonance

Mechanical resonance is the tendency of a mechanical system to respond at greater amplitude when the frequency of its oscillations matches the system's natural frequency of vibration (its resonance frequency or resonant frequency) than it does at other frequencies. It may cause violent swaying motions and even catastrophic failure in improperly constructed structures including bridges, buildings and airplanes—a phenomenon known as resonance disaster.

doesn't sound safe.

 

[Eggplant]

I've seen a ton of videos with the "P" accelerating and I've never heard that sound. If my new one does that I'm gonna be really disappointed... I'm only going off the recording, but I'd be embarrassed. It's pretty hard be a bad ass when your car sounds like my Grandmother farting. Surely there's a fix as I know damn well not every "P" car does that.

My S85 makes that noise. The P85 I had as a loaner made that noise. The SC assures me it's normal.

 

[bareyb]

My S85 makes that noise. The P85 I had as a loaner made that noise. The SC assures me it's normal.

It sounds like it's not "normal" but they simply accept it as something they can't do anything about. If the Motors had better quality control nobody would have this issue. The problem is, some of the motors have loose windings and other stuff moving around and it causes the resonating sound. In a perfect motor this won't happen. So really, it's a defect. I don't see how you can call it anything else.

I think Tesla just can't do anything about it at this point. They'd have to recall half the cars it sounds like and keep swapping motors until they found one that didn't have the problem. Even then, there would be no guarantee it wouldn't surface later on... So if you get stuck with one... well... you're just stuck with it I guess. I sure as hell hope my new car doesn't make that sound. I think it sounds ridiculous and I hope they can solve this problem as I think it's going to bum a lot of folks out. Myself included.

 

[Eggplant]

Yeah, it's not great. They say it's vibration in the inverter, not the motor.

Mine doesn't do it all the time either. Usually at very high acceleration (like to the floor). I'd say the P85 loaner might have been louder.

 

[yobigd20]

in addition to the loud balloon leaking squeal, I also have a CONSTANT faint whine tied to the accelerator *at any speed* and *any acceleration* :
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...any-speed*-constant-sound-tied-to-accelerator

 

[cinergi]

(cross posting from http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...gh-pitched-whine-during-acceleration?p=449492 , sry mods usually I wouldnt do this but I think its important to highlight).

So I quickly opened up my recorded audio file in soundbooth and (for laziness) just made a video recording of it using my camera LOL. I'm sure I could do a higher quality screen cap with original audio, but this is good enough to get my point across.

As you'll see in the video, in the middle of the playback you'll see some horizontal lines in the purplish spectral frequency display. That is the high pitched whine I am talking about, or as I am described as the "balloon leak" sound. I've been told by Tesla that this is a "normal" sound and there is nothing to be fixed....(I tend to disagree, and would think this sound should not occur), so looking for others opinions here in if this is the sound that you guys are talking about too.

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attaching zipped mp3 (higher quality) version of this whine sound that I captured used in the video above.

Sounds like any other balloon-squeal noise I've heard in the Model S...

 

[znino]

per wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_resonance


doesn't sound safe.

The definition and example given is Gross exaggeration and taken totally out of context. The resonance noise you hear in the electric motor has nothing unsafe about it and is not comparable to resonance on a bridge that could cause a collapse. I am an electrical engineer. I am not just getting definitions of resonance from wikipedia. Resonance is a phenomena found everywhere in your every day life and doesn't lead to catastrophes. The literature that talks about bridges collapsing is also misleading as all those incidents are cause by combination of factors including wind interaction, not just resonance. But the bottom line is that when you pass a large amount of current through the windings, you get what we are hearing in the model S. No two motor windings are identical so sounds will not be identical or happen at the same times on all motors but you will not convince any of the engineers at Tesla that this is abnormal or a defect. It is a fact of electric motor life. Just like the sound you hear in a jet engine is part of that mechanical system.

 

[yobigd20]

The definition and example given is Gross exaggeration and taken totally out of context. The resonance noise you hear in the electric motor has nothing unsafe about it and is not comparable to resonance on a bridge that could cause a collapse. I am an electrical engineer. I am not just getting definitions of resonance from wikipedia. Resonance is a phenomena found everywhere in your every day life and doesn't lead to catastrophes. The literature that talks about bridges collapsing is also misleading as all those incidents are cause by combination of factors including wind interaction, not just resonance. But the bottom line is that when you pass a large amount of current through the windings, you get what we are hearing in the model S. No two motor windings are identical so sounds will not be identical or happen at the same times on all motors but you will not convince any of the engineers at Tesla that this is abnormal or a defect. It is a fact of electric motor life. Just like the sound you hear in a jet engine is part of that mechanical system.

lol bad wikipedia ... /slap

 

[pfq1982]

My S85 makes that noise. The P85 I had as a loaner made that noise. The SC assures me it's normal.

That's actually really scary. They would only think it's "normal" if they see a lot of cars with it. I think the owner consensus is not only is the sound loud/embarrassing/annoying, but it's not "normal", as there are multiple accounts of inverters being replaced to fix this problem.

I'm sure, just like the 21 inch tire issue and many other things, that the reporting frequency is lower than the actual frequency of the problem. Some people always drive with music, others don't mind the noise, other might think it's annoying but figure it's normal since it's their first EV.

It's interesting that for some, the problem is immediate. And for others, they received their car in the spring and are just having the issue.

 

[bareyb]

The definition and example given is Gross exaggeration and taken totally out of context. The resonance noise you hear in the electric motor has nothing unsafe about it and is not comparable to resonance on a bridge that could cause a collapse. I am an electrical engineer. I am not just getting definitions of resonance from wikipedia. Resonance is a phenomena found everywhere in your every day life and doesn't lead to catastrophes. The literature that talks about bridges collapsing is also misleading as all those incidents are cause by combination of factors including wind interaction, not just resonance. But the bottom line is that when you pass a large amount of current through the windings, you get what we are hearing in the model S. No two motor windings are identical so sounds will not be identical or happen at the same times on all motors but you will not convince any of the engineers at Tesla that this is abnormal or a defect. It is a fact of electric motor life. Just like the sound you hear in a jet engine is part of that mechanical system.

It's a fact they can't consistently build drive trains that don't have this issue. That's the only fact here. If EVERYONE had this "sound" then it would be a fact of electric motor life. As it is, it's intermittent and it only happens on random drive trains and therefore it's a problem.

I'm willing to accept that if I want a car NOW then it's something I may end up having to live with, but please don't try to tell me this is how ALL electric motors are, because that is not the case. There are many Model S cars that do not have this problem. And yes. It's a problem. It may not cause any harm, but if the engineers could eliminate this embarrassing sound from every car they absolutely would. It takes a bad ass car with incredible acceleration and makes it sound kinda silly. I hope to God they can tighten up the QC on the drive trains before they build mine...

I'm actually going to contact my Sales Person tomorrow at HQ and request that they make sure that MY car has a drive train without that issue. If I show up to get my car and it squeals like a Pig the first time I step on it, I'm gonna leave it at the factory and refuse delivery.

 

[pfq1982]

I one thousand and second the suggestion that this mega thread of technical issues be broken down by category. A few suggestions: Acceleration whine, 21 inch tire inside shoulder wear, door handles, 12V battery failure. These seem to be the biggies.

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The definition and example given is Gross exaggeration and taken totally out of context. The resonance noise you hear in the electric motor has nothing unsafe about it and is not comparable to resonance on a bridge that could cause a collapse. I am an electrical engineer. I am not just getting definitions of resonance from wikipedia. Resonance is a phenomena found everywhere in your every day life and doesn't lead to catastrophes. The literature that talks about bridges collapsing is also misleading as all those incidents are cause by combination of factors including wind interaction, not just resonance. But the bottom line is that when you pass a large amount of current through the windings, you get what we are hearing in the model S. No two motor windings are identical so sounds will not be identical or happen at the same times on all motors but you will not convince any of the engineers at Tesla that this is abnormal or a defect. It is a fact of electric motor life. Just like the sound you hear in a jet engine is part of that mechanical system.

Thank you for this insightful post.

I happen to be highly sensitive to high-pitched and intermittent noises, so yo-big's noises would be a dealbreaker. I don't drive aggressively, so noises on max accel I could live with, but hearing it EVERYTIME the accel pedal is pushed... no thanks.

Your post convinces me that, when the time is right, I will have to purchase a used or loaner S that I can test drive to make sure it has a quiet inverter.

 

[znino]

It's a fact they can't consistently build drive trains that don't have this issue. That's the only fact here. If EVERYONE had this "sound" then it would be a fact of electric motor life. As it is, it's intermittent and it only happens on random drive trains and therefore it's a problem.

I'm willing to accept that if I want a car NOW then it's something I may end up having to live with, but please don't try to tell me this is how ALL electric motors are, because that is not the case. There are many Model S cars that do not have this problem. And yes. It's a problem. It may not cause any harm, but if the engineers could eliminate this embarrassing sound from every car they absolutely would. It takes a bad ass car with incredible acceleration and makes it sound kinda silly. I hope to God they can tighten up the QC on the drive trains before they build mine... I'm actually going to contact my Sales Person tomorrow at HQ and request that they make sure that MY car has a drive train without that issue. If I show to get my car and it squeals like a Pig the first time I step on it, I'm gonna leave it at the factory and refuse delivery.

Sorry bareyb, it IS the case and also the fact that they won't be eliminating this noise because it's a fact of engineering and manufacturing life. almost every model S owner I know (I am part of a club here with over 30 owners) has this noise on his Model S. I would venture to say all motors on all model S's will have it (if not today, after a while as things move and settle). Yours will too so get used to the idea now or cancel your reservation. And for what it's worth every owner I've talked to in the real world (in my local club and elsewhere) as well as a few automotive journalists who have driven my car find the sound cool. It's not embarrassing at all. It increases in frequency with power and sounds like a jet (I am talking about the squeal noise on high acceleration, not the constant other sound some have reported). You guys can now go on debating what is normal and not on this forum to your heart's content. This is my second electric car and as I have said before, in my engineering life i have applied power to many electric motors and ALL, not some... ALL, have a high pitch noise of one frequency or another when you apply increasing current. I hope you do not refuse delivery of your car for this. You will miss out on a lot if you do.... but perhaps you prefer the put put sound of your current ICE car

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Thank you for this insightful post.

I happen to be highly sensitive to high-pitched and intermittent noises, so yo-big's noises would be a dealbreaker. I don't drive aggressively, so noises on max accel I could live with, but hearing it EVERYTIME the accel pedal is pushed... no thanks.

Your post convinces me that, when the time is right, I will have to purchase a used or loaner S that I can test drive to make sure it has a quiet inverter.

pfq1982, the people I know who have had the constant noise that was described all have had it fixed by the service center so I wouldnt worry about that too much. They consider than abnormal and fix it under warranty.

 

[bareyb]

Sorry bareyb, it IS the case and also the fact that they won't be eliminating this noise because it's a fact of engineering and manufacturing life. almost every model S owner I know (I am part of a club here with over 30 owners) has this noise on his Model S. I would venture to say all motors on all model S's will have it (if not today, after a while as things move and settle). Yours will too so get used to the idea now or cancel your reservation. And for what it's worth every owner I've talked to in the real world (in my local club and elsewhere) as well as a few automotive journalists who have driven my car find the sound cool. It's not embarrassing at all. It increases in frequency with power and sounds like a jet (I am talking about the squeal noise on high acceleration, not the constant other sound some have reported). You guys can now go on debating what is normal and not on this forum to your heart's content. This is my second electric car and as I have said before, in my engineering life i have applied power to many electric motors and ALL, not some... ALL, have a high pitch noise of one frequency or another when you apply increasing current. I hope you do not refuse delivery of your car for this. You will miss out on a lot if you do.... but perhaps you prefer the put put sound of your current ICE car

I think perhaps we are talking about two different things. Of course all electric motors "whine". The Balloon Squeal I am hearing in that recording is not normal... If I show up to get my car and it squeals like a pig every time I step on it, I'm going to leave my car at the factory and refuse delivery. I could not live with that. It sounds like the car is squeaking out a tiny fart...

Just so I'm sure you and I are on the same page... are you saying that THIS (see video below) is "normal" and happens on every single car with an electric motor? How do you explain all the people around here who don't have it?

 

[znino]

I think perhaps we are talking about two different things. Of course all electric motors "whine". The Pig Squeal I am hearing in that recording is not normal... If I show up to get my car and it squeals like a pig every time I step on it, I'm going to leave my car at the factory and refuse delivery. I could not live with that.

Just so I'm sure you and I are on the same page... are you saying that THIS (see video below) is "normal" and happens on every single car with an electric motor? How do you explain all the people around here who don't have it?

Hard to tell. My whine doesnt sound quite as pig squeelish and your recording seems to go up then down in pitch where if I accelerate hard it goes up and if i back off it just stops. Maybe I can get a recording of mine posted so as to compare and see if we are talking about 2 different things.

 

[bareyb]

Hard to tell. My whine doesnt sound quite as pig squeelish and your recording seems to go up then down in pitch where if I accelerate hard it goes up and if i back off it just stops. Maybe I can get a recording of mine posted so as to compare and see if we are talking about 2 different things.

I'd love to hear it. Thanks. This is seriously messing with my buzz... Perhaps that recording is just an unusually BAD case? I hope so, because I really don't think I could live with that. It's a very silly sound and has no place in an insanely cool car like the Model S.

 

[kota23]

Although my car hasn't been delivered yet, the sound in that video does not sound any louder than what I heard during my test drive. It sounds just like all electric motors that are ramping up to full speed under high load.