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Model S Temperature Limits

Discussion in 'Canada' started by wayner, Jan 10, 2015.

  1. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    This is copied verbatim from the Tesla Model S Owner's Manual:

    Doesn't that preclude most Canadians without a garage from owning a Tesla?

    Here in Toronto it gets that cold for 24 hours, but I would think that this is a regular occurrence for Montreal, Quebec City, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, etc. And I wouldn't be surprised if last winter in Toronto we had a day like this.
     
  2. iKhalid

    iKhalid Member

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    I don't think this applies when the car is plugged in or when you preheat or actually drive it.
     
  3. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    I guess that depends on how you interpret "expose". To me driving or charging in -25C weather is still exposing the car to that weather but I may be being a little pretentious.
     
  4. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    You must be thinking of windchill, which doesn't count.

    The record low for Toronto is -20 C--happened in 2004, so Toronto has never had 24 hours of -30 C.
    The record low for Montreal is -25 C--happened in 2004.
    The record low for Ottawa is -27 C--happened in 2004.
    The record low for Winnipeg is -31 C--happened in 1999. So it's not likely it was below -30 for 24 hours, although it could have been.
    The record low for Grande Prairie, Alberta is -38 C--happened in 1998. So here is one place that you'd need to garage the car.
     
  5. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Bear in mind that all those measurements are for the town's airport. I've seen substantially colder conditions outside of town. I've seen a solid -40C at Montebello. I've seen -35C half an hour south of Ottawa.

    (We had -27 in Ottawa a few days ago.)
     
  6. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    True. Outside of town always makes a difference of 3-5 degrees. Sometimes more.
     
  7. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Ottawa is in a valley (it's very broad so people often don't eve notice this), so the difference can occasionally be quite large.
     
  8. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    I know windchill doesn't count but the data that you are presenting must be for the lowest daily maximum because on Feb 12, 2014 Toronto hit a low of -21.4 - but the high that day was -7. The same day Ottawa hit -24.9. But you are right that the daily highs are much above that so I guess I was wrong - the -20 doesn't stick around for a full 24 hours.
     
  9. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I searched for the record low of the day. Grande Prairie was included because although most people don't recognize it, it gets some very cold temperatures. (Been there many times in winter.)
     
  10. SmartElectric

    SmartElectric Active Member

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    The Smart ED manual has a similar warning to that listed up thread for the Tesla Model S.

    I encountered an interesting battery protection nuance of the Smart ED on one particularly cold day last winter.
    Ref:
    Smart Electric Drive: Crazy cold and the battery heater

    The car required a few minutes of battery pre-conditioning before I could select the "D" for drive on my gear selector.

    Contrast that to the Tesla, where the battery conditioning can be happening even when the car is not plugged in and/or not running. The reliability of Tesla in Norway would suggest there are no cold weather show-stoppers on this car, or they would have been encountered already.
     
  11. PoweredByRain

    PoweredByRain Member

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    #11 PoweredByRain, Jan 11, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
    Hi jerry33. I've lived in Toronto and Ottawa. Your figures are definitely wrong. What is your source?

    Here, for example, is what the Government of Canada says, via Canadian Climate Normals

    Toronto (Buttonville) -35.2 1994/01/16
    Montreal (Mirabel) -37.0 1981/01/04
    Ottawa (CDA) -38.9 1933/12/29 (but I assure you it's been below -30 plenty since then!)
    Winnipeg -45.0 1966/02/18 (holy heck!)
    Grande Prairie -52.2 1950/01/02 (holy double heck!)

    I looked for locations which had minimums which were relatively recent, rather than reporting locations such as Toronto downtown where the minimum is from the 1800s. :)

    If that doesn't convince you, how about Climate

    Winnipeg has had 2 days so far this year with minimums below -30 (-31.5 on Jan 3 and -34.3 on Jan 4). There was only one day in December, though (-30.9 on Dec 28).

    My conclusion is that it is rarely an issue, but it definitely DOES get below -30 C frequently enough in much of Canada for that phrase in the manual to be a concern.


    UPDATE: I just noticed that your original data does not go back more than 20 years. Which is perhaps more relevant than all-time lows, as recent temperatures are definitely higher and the odds of new extreme lows being hit in future decrease.
     
  12. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    To be fair I think the number Jerry posted are the lowest maximum for a day, not the lowest minimums. That is probably the right stat if you want to know temperatures sustained over 24 hours. So yes, it goes below -20 in Toronto on a fairly regular basis. But it never stays there for 24 consecutive hours. Last Feb 12 it went to -21 in Toronto but the high that day was -7 so a car sitting outside would not have been exposed to -20 for a full day.
     
  13. PoweredByRain

    PoweredByRain Member

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    Excellent point. I sit corrected! That is, with regard to the original statement of 24 hours below -30. Jerry's original post stated that those were the lows, however, not the lowest maximums.
     
  14. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I went to wunderground.com, entered a city. There is a "History & Almanac" section (It's just a title until you expand it). And took the numbers from the Min Temperature column. My assumption was that Max Temps were the daily highs and Min Temps were the daily lows.

    story & Almanac ico_up.gif

    Max Temperature:Min Temperature:
    Normal (KADS)11 °C3 °C
    Record (KADS)22 °C (2005)-6 °C (1997)
    Yesterday 5.1 °C-0.9 °C
     
  15. SCY7H3

    SCY7H3 Member

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    Temperature extremes for anything are never good for long periods of time. Especially when you have a lot of electronics including lithium batteries that require to be within a specific temperature range.
     

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