Model S to the Nürburgring Next Week!

[wenkan]

Moderator note: The first 5 or so pages of this thread contain posts merged from three different threads on essentially the same topic.

 

[Todd Burch]

Soo excited for this, although personally I don’t care about track performance. I care 100% about smacking down the haters...

 

[Todd Burch]

Elon announced that the S will be going to the Nürburgring next week:

Elon Musk on Twitter

So would he have done this without already knowing the S would beat Porsche’s time? Or do you think he’s taking a chance?

 

[Uncle Paul]

Elon likes fast cars.

Go TESLA!

 

[ucmndd]

No way a ludicrous raven is going to be faster than the Taycan.

I think they CAN demonstrate a strong value proposition though... 90% as fast for a $50k discount, for example...

 

[PhantomX]

Doesn't Model S has trouble sustaining high speed? Not sure if people understand how difficult it is to break the 8 minutes mark on the Ring, let along taking 20 seconds out of that. I have a hard time seeing how Model S can do it unless there is a special edition Model S with ceramic brakes, super wide tires, new suspensions, and cooling system.

 

[Erleichda]

Model 3P with an amateur driver, passengers, not on a closed course did under 9 minutes. Pro driver, closed course, track mode: most think it would be under 8 min.

Model S has more battery. More 0-60 speed. More 1/4 mi speed. What do you think is going to happen now with Raven tech?

Taycan record was what, 7:42?

 

[wenkan]

No way a ludicrous raven is going to be faster than the Taycan.

I think they CAN demonstrate a strong value proposition though... 90% as fast for a $50k discount, for example...

The main difficulty people are talking about is just the overheat protection. That is, to protect something, if you want. Elon can definitely hack that protection even without actually overcoming it. So unless it catches fire before finishing the lap, I would expect model S to be faster than Taycan on the ring with all the protection turned off. Maybe have some after effect like shorter battery life, but who cares? Just go and break the record!

 

[ucmndd]

Doesn't Model S has trouble sustaining high speed? Not sure if people understand how difficult it is to break the 8 minutes mark on the Ring, let along taking 20 seconds out of that. I have a hard time seeing how Model S can do it unless there is a special edition Model S with ceramic brakes, super wide tires, new suspensions, and cooling system.

Agree. Even if the sustained high output has been fixed, there’s no way the S will out-brake or out-corner the Taycan for 20km. Acceleration advantage isn’t going to make up for that.

 

[ucmndd]

The main difficulty people are talking about is just the overheat protection. That is, to protect something, if you want. Elon can definitely hack that protection even without actually overcome it. So unless it catches fire before finishing the lap, I would expect model S to be faster than Taycan on the ring. Maybe have some after effect like shorter battery life, but who cares?

Nah, I think it’s more a matter of braking and cornering. Taycan brakes are huge and track oriented and it can regen at something crazy like 200kw.

Model S is a big girl and her brakes are gonna roast halfway in even if the drivetrain can keep up.

 

[Zaxxon]

Now that the pricing of the Taycan that can do sub-8 is known (read: well over $50k more than the top-spec S, with stats inferior to the S everywhere but perhaps Nurburgring), why not introduce a Porsche-killer high-end trim?

Plenty of room to work in a super-high-margin set of upgrades while still coming in well below the Taycan Turbo S...

 

[PhantomX]

Ring is not power only. It pushes a car's ability to accelerate, sustain speed, slow down, and handle. Look at the speed in the corners of any car that goes sub 7:50. That's not something any car can do if it's not designed for it.

 

[Todd Burch]

Doesn't Model S has trouble sustaining high speed? Not sure if people understand how difficult it is to break the 8 minutes mark on the Ring, let along taking 20 seconds out of that. I have a hard time seeing how Model S can do it unless there is a special edition Model S with ceramic brakes, super wide tires, new suspensions, and cooling system.

S’s from years ago, yes. But Ravens have a different powertrain and cooling architecture. That, software changes, etc mean a lot has changed recently...

 

[PhantomX]

I am not sure it's necessary though. Most car manufacturer don't care Ring time, because it's not important for most sales. I don't think Model S platform is designed for it, so why spend the money to chase a small amount of customers? ROI will likely be extremely poor just for bragging rights...

 

[PhantomX]

S’s from years ago, yes. But Ravens have a different powertrain and cooling architecture. That, software changes, etc mean a lot has changed recently...

Can it slow down as fast as Taycan? Does it have rear wheel steering to give it extra stability at high speed turns and more agility at low speed. Does it have suspension tuned Ring to run bumpy surfaces at high speed? It's not just power, it's a complete package that's needed to make a good Ring time happen.

 

[Todd Burch]

Can it slow down as fast as Taycan? Does it have rear wheel steering to give it extra stability at high speed turns and more agility at low speed. Does it have suspension tuned Ring to run bumpy surfaces at high speed? It's not just power, it's a complete package that's needed to make a good Ring time happen.

The new Raven Model S is lighter than the Taycan.

It has a new suspension that is actively-damped with software.

It has a new cooling system.

Bigger battery.

Almost identical coefficient of drag.

Faster 0-60 time.

Taycan doesn’t have rear-wheel steering, why would the S need it?

Porsche couldn’t match Tesla’s drivetrain. I get that Porsche has a long history with racing, but they don’t have any access to engineering magic that Tesla doesn’t.

My gut says that Elon ALREADY benchmarked the Raven S (or a variant) on the Nürburgring and was waiting for Porsche to announce their time.

Knowing the Raven beat it, he timed this announcement for maximum PR impact.

That’s my theory. Next week will be fun (hopefully).

Elon is the longest-serving automotive CEO. Pretty sure he and/or his engineers know the challenges of the Nürburgring, and I doubt he’d announce this without knowing how the S will do.

 

[MP3Mike]

Taycan doesn’t have rear-wheel steering, why would the S need it?

It is an option on the Taycan.

 

[zanary]

Will Tesla be testing a upgraded Raven v2 with TeslaOS 10 that could blow sway the Taycan?

Elon was waiting for this moment.. right after the Taycan launch.

this is possible

 

[PhantomX]

The new Raven Model S is lighter than the Taycan.

It has a new suspension that is actively-damped with software.

It has a new cooling system.

Bigger battery.

Almost identical coefficient of drag.

Faster 0-60 time.

Taycan doesn’t have rear-wheel steering, why would the S need it?

Porsche couldn’t match Tesla’s drivetrain. I get that Porsche has a long history with racing, but they don’t have any access to engineering magic that Tesla doesn’t.

My gut says that Elon ALREADY benchmarked the Raven S (or a variant) on the Nürburgring and was waiting for Porsche to announce their time.

Knowing the Raven beat it, he timed this announcement for maximum PR impact.

That’s my theory. Next week will be fun (hopefully).

Elon is the longest-serving automotive CEO. Pretty sure he and/or his engineers know the challenges of the Nürburgring, and I doubt he’d announce this without knowing how the S will do.

I guess we'll see next week.

BTW, many cars have actively damped suspensions these days. Just about any mid level luxury cars have it as standard or option. And they do work well. But suspension is only one piece of the puzzle. It's the whole package. Perhaps Tesla will surprise us...

Lastly, the Ring is a closely monitor track by enthusiast. If Tesla had tested on it, we would have heard it by now.

 

[Todd Burch]

I guess we'll see next week.

BTW, many cars have actively damped suspensions these days. Just about any mid level luxury cars have it as standard or option. And they do work well. But suspension is only one piece of the puzzle. It's the whole package. Perhaps Tesla will surprise us...

Lastly, the Ring is a closely monitor track by enthusiast. If Tesla had tested on it, we would have heard it by now.

Taycan’s time wasn’t public until they announced it, right?