Model S to the Nürburgring Next Week!

[busaman]

well mine had the stock michelin ps3 21" the grip was not the problem mainly stopping and the dreaded reduced power to 80kw going uphill (and i mean quite a long steep incline.)

 

[Realist]

well mine had the stock michelin ps3 21" the grip was not the problem mainly stopping and the dreaded reduced power to 80kw going uphill (and i mean quite a long steep incline.)

I know,

They will have to modify everything just to make a single lap.

 

[Mr X]

 

[wenkan]

Haha, very funny.

The modified Model S seems to wear Michelin Cup 2 R tires. This is a super sticky compound. It has nothing to do with the stock car.

This is the most pathetic Nürburgring attempt I have ever seen.

Cup2 is still street tire, not race slick. Porsche 911 GT3RS, GT2RS and most of the super cars are carrying cup2 as stock tire. Roadster prototype is also using cup2. Don’t see any problem adding it as an option to Model S.

 

[Cory151]

Haha, very funny.

The modified Model S seems to wear Michelin Cup 2 R tires. This is a super sticky compound. It has nothing to do with the stock car.

This is the most pathetic Nürburgring attempt I have ever seen.

Yeah what tires were on the Taycan? We know German auto manufactures would cheat for decades and poison people with their emissions fraud, doesn't seem out of bounds for them to cheat a Nürburgring run, does it?
Tesla, has never poisoned the citizens of your country and defrauded you government. Seems odd that you care so much what Tesla does. Sounds to me like you are vested in NOT seeing a tiny, 9 year old Silcon Valley startup punch your favorite car company square in the face.

Quit acting like Tesla has shown up in Germany to stomp on you model train collection. This will all be over in under seven minutes, forty two seconds.

 

[whitex]

Why do you think they limited regen to 50 kW? My Raven regens to 81.5 kW quite consistently above ~40 mph.

IMO a combination of cost and battery longevity against the 8 year battery warranty. Given sub 100KW regen, I'd think there is cost to be saved in not providing hardware to charge from much higher regen. People here claim that Tesla inverter is fully symmetric and can regen at 450KW, and if battery longevity is recalculated for 8 minutes instead of 8 years, they might be able to enable 450KW regen.

 

[Cory151]

I'm still not sure an S can beat the Taycan at it's specialty, but maybe that's not the intent? all Musk teased is that it will be at the 'ring next week. He didn't say why. Sport Cups aside, what if the intent is to demonstrate FSD? He could show 1) that an untrained Tesla can lap the 'ring on it's own (albeit not very fast). Maybe more importantly 2) how the same car can teach itself the track over multiple days, each day gaining familiarity and confidence just like a real driver., lapping faster and faster. To the point it can totally blow away any previous record for autonomous cars on the 'ring, even those that used lidar / high def maps and thousands of hours of tuning. That might be worth a lot more for the brand than competing against the Taycan.

Well though out my friend but this has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with FSD.

The P100D, in it's current form, is absolutely capable of beating the brakes of the Taycan on the ring.

It's harder to secure timing slots than it is to beat the Taycan.

Remember when Rocky had to travel to the USSR to fight the Russian?

 

[Cory151]

IMO a combination of cost and battery longevity against the 8 year battery warranty. Given sub 100KW regen, I'd think there is cost to be had in not providing hardware to charge from much higher regen. People here claim that Tesla inverter is fully symmetric and can regen at 450KW, and if battery longevity is recalculated for 8 minutes instead of 8 years, they might be able to enable 450KW regen.

Yes agreed. Take the gloves off of the battery thermal management as it's known to be ultra conservative. A ton of concern shouldn't be given to battery longevity for these packs, for 8 minutes of life.

 

[whitex]

Yes agreed. Take the gloves off of the battery thermal management as it's known to be ultra conservative. A ton of concern shouldn't be given to battery longevity for these packs, for 8 minutes of life.

If any modifications are allowed and it only has to last 8 minutes, include a small bottle of liquid nitrogen for cooling.

 

[f205v]

If any modifications are allowed and it only has to last 8 minutes, include a small bottle of champagne for celebrating!

 

[Ben D]

Apparently if you run the California number plates the model S on the flatbed is a 2017 model S, complete with HOV stickers, (whatever that is). So its most likely a development hack. The Tesla engineers are probably going over there to collect data or test out new development components - could be software/hardware or both - This could be anything, including Maxwell battery prototypes.... But almost certainly not a stock off the shelf Model S. Up till now Tesla have been listening to Captain Slow (James May from Top Gear/Grand Tour) and avoiding the ring as the modifications required to go around the ring fast usually tend to ruin nice road cars. But then again with Teslas electric motors and air suspension, there may no longer need to be compromise between road civility and track performance (as Top gear magazine already found out in their feature for the Model 3 Performance). Can't wait to see what happens.

 

[mattwhite]

Things changed a lot after model 3 launch. The latest raven model s has all the technology needed to compete with Taycan. Yes they are off the shelf now.

It doesn't have new brakes as far as I know, and the current brakes won't last one lap of the Ring. As busaman stated in post #275, his basically gave out. There's a reason Porsche fitted such massive brakes on the Taycan:

Why Porsche Gave the Taycan Enormous Brakes

 

[mongo]

IMO a combination of cost and battery longevity against the 8 year battery warranty. Given sub 100KW regen, I'd think there is cost to be saved in not providing hardware to charge from much higher regen. People here claim that Tesla inverter is fully symmetric and can regen at 450KW, and if battery longevity is recalculated for 8 minutes instead of 8 years, they might be able to enable 450KW regen.

I'd say it is not so much an inverter as it is a synchonous buck converter outputing a variable voltage. As such, it also runs equally well (HW wise) in reverse as a boost conveter.

I think the limits are efficency/ waveform time due to needing to excite the rotor to pull the energy from the rotation (Raven's rotor magnets and SR nature could help here) and also a user experience limit since regen is tied to lifting off the accelerator. A track mode could increase accelerator regen or add more regen to braking. (Up to pack lifetime limits)

 

[TIppy]

IMO a combination of cost and battery longevity against the 8 year battery warranty. Given sub 100KW regen, I'd think there is cost to be saved in not providing hardware to charge from much higher regen. People here claim that Tesla inverter is fully symmetric and can regen at 450KW, and if battery longevity is recalculated for 8 minutes instead of 8 years, they might be able to enable 450KW regen.

wk057 said he was able to increase regen power up to what the bms would allow, basically supercharging level.
P85 modded to be a P85 w/Ludicrous

 

[cduzz]

Apparently if you run the California number plates the model S on the flatbed is a 2017 model S, complete with HOV stickers, (whatever that is). So its most likely a development hack. The Tesla engineers are probably going over there to collect data or test out new development components - could be software/hardware or both - This could be anything, including Maxwell battery prototypes.... But almost certainly not a stock off the shelf Model S. Up till now Tesla have been listening to Captain Slow (James May from Top Gear/Grand Tour) and avoiding the ring as the modifications required to go around the ring fast usually tend to ruin nice road cars. But then again with Teslas electric motors and air suspension, there may no longer need to be compromise between road civility and track performance (as Top gear magazine already found out in their feature for the Model 3 Performance). Can't wait to see what happens.

I'm putting my marker on "that's a development mule for the roadster platform"

The Taycan is a "Halo" car like the 959 was; each one of those cost Porsche sold at an enormous loss. They profited enormously from the project in the long run but at the time the project nearly destroyed the company.

The S already went through that phase almost a decade ago and a this point Tesla has nothing to prove at all.

If they romp their Mule around the ring and it shows good performance, it's just Tesla saying "yeah, we can make a small number of unprofitable monsters too; but we don't have anything to prove so we're not going to release this until we're ready."

Of course, to cash that check, that mule better be fast.

 

[dark cloud]

well i took my 2015 p85d round the ring a couple of months back and it was rubbish bearing in mind i had 129 miles of charge to start with and the outside temp was 34deg c it took 10 minutes to complete.

the standard model s brakes cannot cope nor can the power train or the suspension

at 10km in it went to reduced power (50mph max) for 2-3 minutes i almost ran off the track twice because the brakes would not pull up the heavy old gal up the suspension is not to bad but the weight just pushes the car on in the tight corners.

by the end the brakes would hardly work and were smoking badly..

my conclusion is the taycan will wipe the floor with it unless they have dramaticly modified it (but then it would not be an off the shelf model-s)

Sounds like fun! I'm sure there will be extra brake ducting on the car they bring, and the air temperature is much cooler now. You got any brake left after that?

 

[Ciaopec]

at what spec .. the regular Turbo or Turbo S

The one with the turbo installed....

 

[Speedr117]

well i took my 2015 p85d round the ring a couple of months back and it was rubbish bearing in mind i had 129 miles of charge to start with and the outside temp was 34deg c it took 10 minutes to complete.

the standard model s brakes cannot cope nor can the power train or the suspension

at 10km in it went to reduced power (50mph max) for 2-3 minutes i almost ran off the track twice because the brakes would not pull up the heavy old gal up the suspension is not to bad but the weight just pushes the car on in the tight corners.

by the end the brakes would hardly work and were smoking badly..

my conclusion is the taycan will wipe the floor with it unless they have dramaticly modified it (but then it would not be an off the shelf model-s)

Changing stock brake pads is a must for tracking cars. That simple change will probably allow the brakes not to fade for a lap at the 'ring. And for those who say it's unfair, other than some magazine test, anyone who does a track day knows that stock pads don't last for more than a few laps (excluding the $5,000 ceramic race setup). It's because there is a trade off between what is good for the road (fast warm up) and the track (long endurance).It's not a cost issue.

 

[dark cloud]

The one with the turbo installed....

The turbo has this as the defroster

While the turbo s has this one:

 

[Darthbenji]

I think it’s pretty cool Nico Rosberg has offered to do the lap!