Model S vs BMW i8

[moollar]

You're right, it doesn't make sense.
and yes, tesla is setting the standard for EV's..

only thing is... I8 is not an EV, it's a hybrid.. Therefore, they just can't and shouldn't be compared to eachother by any means I think.. They're not in the same category. And they don't share the same target audience nor looks/style nor technology nor price tag, vision, nothing... Except they both have four wheels and have a battery, just like an ICE car ..

Tesla is waaaaaaay ahead of BMW as far as EV driving is concerned (mind you, I am a BMW-lover ). BMW should be ashamed of themselves afaic, being blown away by a "startup" just like this in the EV department. Not to mention other big car manufacturers that have been sleeping.

or to put it differently... Is Tesla THAT brilliant? Or are the big brands THAT lazy/afraid/spoiled/traditional or whatever? And I'm not talking about the car alone.. It's even more about the approach as a whole. The free superchargers, the 17" touchscreen, the internet updates, the app, the battery swap technology et cetera..

So, I8? Basically a car like every other car, only a bit faster, nicer, more expensive. True, a nice step in a new direction for BMW, but nowhere near revolutionary.
Model S? A new approach on mobility and one that is successfully being adopted worldwide step by step.The model s is a car that will be remembered as the one that showed the world what true next gen driving/technology is really about.

You bring up some interesting points. I think other manufacturers can evetually build something great - just take a look at the Mercedes SLS AMG Electric as an example. I'm just not sure that other manufacturers can currently do it as quickly or cost effectively as Tesla has. There's a massive amount of inertia around moving away from an ICE business model (I'll let others speculate on why that is so). What's also interesting is when watching another report with Matt Miller and Andrea James, Matt was saying that any other manufacturer could build something like the Model S. Andrea's response was, "Then why aren't they doing it?" I think she's right and Tesla have some serious advantage over other manufacturers with what they have delivered. Everyone else is playing catch up on the electric vehicle front.

The SLS AMG Electric shows that, with other vehicle manufacturers, you have to PAY THROUGH THE NOSE for the privilege of driving an outstanding electric vehicle. Hopefully this changes in the near future. After all, Tesla's mission is to bring about that change....

 

[Mayhemm]

You bring up some interesting points. I think other manufacturers can evetually build something great - just take a look at the Mercedes SLS AMG Electric as an example. I'm just not sure that other manufacturers can currently do it as quickly or cost effectively as Tesla has. There's a massive amount of inertia around moving away from an ICE business model (I'll let others speculate on why that is so). What's also interesting is when watching another report with Matt Miller and Andrea James, Matt was saying that any other manufacturer could build something like the Model S. Andrea's response was, "Then why aren't they doing it?" I think she's right and Tesla have some serious advantage over other manufacturers with what they have delivered. Everyone else is playing catch up on the electric vehicle front.

The SLS AMG Electric shows that, with other vehicle manufacturers, you have to PAY THROUGH THE NOSE for the privilege of driving an outstanding electric vehicle. Hopefully this changes in the near future. After all, Tesla's mission is to bring about that change....

Elon has spoken of this often. How he thought the GM EV1 was to be the first step in the move to mass-market EVs from major automakers....but we all know how that turned out, so Elon decides he has to do it himself (at least entrepreneurially) since the existing automakers were clearly unwilling. I believe this is largely still the case. They're making all the right noises now but considering the resources at their disposal, their efforts are borderline laughable.

 

[Kreijger]

You bring up some interesting points. I think other manufacturers can evetually build something great - just take a look at the Mercedes SLS AMG Electric as an example. I'm just not sure that other manufacturers can currently do it as quickly or cost effectively as Tesla has. There's a massive amount of inertia around moving away from an ICE business model (I'll let others speculate on why that is so). What's also interesting is when watching another report with Matt Miller and Andrea James, Matt was saying that any other manufacturer could build something like the Model S. Andrea's response was, "Then why aren't they doing it?" I think she's right and Tesla have some serious advantage over other manufacturers with what they have delivered. Everyone else is playing catch up on the electric vehicle front.

The SLS AMG Electric shows that, with other vehicle manufacturers, you have to PAY THROUGH THE NOSE for the privilege of driving an outstanding electric vehicle. Hopefully this changes in the near future. After all, Tesla's mission is to bring about that change....

+1!

 

[palmer_md]

The SLS AMG Electric shows that, with other vehicle manufacturers, you have to PAY THROUGH THE NOSE for the privilege of driving an outstanding electric vehicle. Hopefully this changes in the near future. After all, Tesla's mission is to bring about that change....

Wow $435k. Not really even comparable to Model S. I can get 2 fully loaded P85+ cars for me and my wife and still have a lot of money left over for other toys.

 

[Chris TX]

In my opinion, the i8's styling will date itself much quicker than the Model S / Model X style. Even if I was single and had 200k to spend on an electric car, the BMW i8's only appeal would be, "I want the something different from a Tesla."

You pay for the nameplate
You pay for the styling
You pay for a smaller, less functional vehicle

I think BMW is missing the mark on the i8 in a big way. The Model S trounces it on every spec that I can think of. Put them side-by-side and the i8 loses every time.

Ways to fix the i8?
1. Longer range
2. Equal or Lower cost
3. Larger inverter for more power (Maybe Mi8?)
4. Show it in another color than black with blue LED rings. Hell, maybe show it in the daylight!

 

[lolachampcar]

Just consider the conversation in the board room for a minute...
Visionary entrenched high end auto manufacturer CEO says that electric cars are the future. I'm going to completely realign our engineering strengths to beat Tesla at their own game and set us up as an industry leader in BEV. Of course, our stock will take a huge hit for five or six years and we are going to have to sell against our own ICE product on our dealer's showroom floor. We do not have unlimited resources so we will have to take from ICE development to make this BEV product line a success. And yes, I really feel like we must shoot ourself firmly in the ICE foot if we are to stand a chance of becoming king of the BEV hill.

I'm thinking this would be the beginning of the executive search process.

The only way I see this working is for someone like MB to buy Tesla and apply their procurement expertise to further accelerate the process. The down side is that they would have to do all of this without touching any other part of the business (highly unlikely).

 

[mnx]

I think BMW is missing the mark on the i8 in a big way. The Model S trounces it on every spec that I can think of. Put them side-by-side and the i8 loses every time.

You know as much as we all love to make fun of the i8, I think the i8 will destroy the Model S in one significant aspect. It will run circles around it on the racetrack. The Model S is slower than a Focus ST @ Laguna Seca according to Motor Trend.

 

[palmer_md]

Carlos Ghosn has been having a hard time since he started down this path. The only difference is he has not been targeting Tesla as competition, but rather trying to start at their equivalent of Gen3. Tesla has it right moving from the top of the market down instead of the other way around, and it will eat any lead/advantage that Nissan was trying to gain by starting at the end goal. BMW strategy is confusing. At times they seem really to go after it and other times they seem like they are not really behind the idea. i3 seems a half hearted effort. ActiveE seemed like a better route. Could have taken from this and built an EV platform from this that looked like it was a BMW. i3 looks more like a Mini Cooper product with kidney grille on the front. Perhaps they were going to originally offer it as a Mini product? i8 seems like a cool project for them, but not really something that will sell in large numbers, just sort of a halo effect car to put in the showroom, like the z8.

 

[Chris TX]

Maybe that's why the i3 and i8 look so radically different from their current lineup. I wonder how well an all-electric 3-Series would play out at the dealership.

For that scenario, I'm interested to see how the Fiat 500e is being sold right next to the non-e.
"Why would I pay for this, when I can have that" and vice versa.

Maybe the only way to effectively compete against an all-electric car company is to have an all-electric car company.

OR

I've seen a scenario like this played out with other technologies:
Step1: ICE Parent company invests heavily in a child company that is purely electric vehicles
Step2: See how well child company does in the market, even against parent company's own ICE products.
Step3: Shift manufacturing of child company's electric products to higher output ICE plant (if that wasn't done in the first place)
Step4: Sell child company's products in the same dealerships as ICE
Step5: Once child company appears to be a larger market force than parent company in the future, merge/re-badge/re-brand

If the child company falters or fails, the parent company's shareholders are protected (for the most part).
If the child company succeeds, it's high-fives all around.

 

[lloyds]

The range and power is where they need to fix w/ the i8

 

[Mayhemm]

The range and power is where they need to fix w/ the i8

And price. It's not competitive for what you get.

You're supposedly paying for R&D. What R&D? It's a EREV.

Personally, I think BMW is just targeting "Eco-buyers" with money to burn. They'll buy it because it looks good and they don't know any better.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Swed is right, it is an Evora, but again. Can we keep the discussion on the i8 please?

Nothing much to discuss at this point given there's not much new info yet. The only news I have heard was BMW making a claim that it was "sold out" and then various news sources questioning that claim.

 

[Doug_G]

A bunch of posts were moved to Realist isn't happy

 

[Reykjavik]

I think this comparison doesn't make sense.

The BWM i8 should be compared to high-end sports cars like the upcoming Honda/Acura NSX or a possible future "Roadster 2.0" from Tesla. It is not a sedan.

Maybe BMW will one day produce an "i5" or an "i7" that can be compared to the Model S?

And yet the model S wins. It has a better 0-60 time, better price, better usability, better looks (in my opinion), and for about $30,000 less. You would expect that a $130,000 sportscar to outperform a $100,000 full size sedan in every performance category. What we have right now is a stated acceleration slower than that of the Model S, and the rest of the information is still unknown.

That said, the comparison to the Model S is a disservice to the i8. I'd rather see it compared to a comporable performance ICE car. Pick something with similar power and handling, and compare the real world usability, the actual cost to own. I think the i8 will do just fine in that category, because it will let you drive on electric power when you don't want to use the full performance, meaning the real world gas mileage may be very high.

 

[lloyds]

Personally, I think the one thing the i8 has over the Model S is the looks. This car is sexy, but electric motor is a joke and the car for that price does not make much sense compared to its performance.

 

[Reykjavik]

I prefer the understated poise of the model S over the more audacious looks of the i8. The i8 has to scream "I'm the future, hey look at me, I'm the future", because it is really just a step past being a performance hybrid. The model S doesn't have to say a word, its lack of tailpipe speaks well enough for its fuel consumption. That is just personal preference though.

 

[TylerCA]

I would buy it if it had a higher cap battery.

 

[lloyds]

With that said, I will withold judgement until I drive it.

 

[Erleichda]

Does anyone know if technically, the i8 could potentially be a model for a plug-in 100% EV? With the lower weight, carbon frame are they just prepping the chasis to be come a true EV? (though true EV would weigh a lot more) Is the frame/drivetrain suited to move it to full EV?

That's what I'd do if I were BMW. This hybrid is just a little teaser but the next car will be full Tesla competitor.

 

[dsm363]

Don't know how much room there is for a battery at this point or if it was designed with that in mind. Maybe in future as barriers get more dense.