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Model S vs. E63 AMG Mercedes 0-110 mph race

Discussion in 'Video' started by yngwie_2012, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. yngwie_2012

    yngwie_2012 Member

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  2. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    I love watching videos of the Model S launch. The 100% torque from standstill is the reason why I have always wanted an AC induction motor to power a car. It just makes sense.

    And it shows how much early acceleration helps cover distance, versus pure top speed.
     
  3. David Johansson

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    But why does the Model S have a lower max speed? I don't think it matters much in practice, just curious if it is by design or if ICEs still have an advantage in delivering higher max speeds?
     
  4. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    It has a lower top speed because it only has a single fixed gear ratio. The electric motor is hitting it's rev limits at this speed. Both physical and back EMF. With a gear box the Model S could achieve higher speeds, but for a street car 120 is really sufficient almost everywhere. And at that speed you are going to consume your battery pack pretty quickly anyway.

    So short answer it is by design. To reduce complexity, while still meeting 99.99+% of street driving needs.
     
  5. spatterso911

    spatterso911 MSP#7577 **--** MX#1891

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    Its based upon the max rpm of the motor. 16000 rpm gets you 135 mph in MSP. there was some discussion of using a higher rpm motor with subsequent higher top speed, but no real news since then. 135 mph is more than adequate to land you in jail. A posted comment from the video incorrectly pegs the top speed at 110.
     
  6. David Johansson

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    Got it - thanks for two easy to understand replies
     
  7. Zzzz...

    Zzzz... Member

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    What ElSupreme said. They are using single-speed gearbox. If they go with more complex one they could reach much higher top speed. But at expense of mechanical complexity. Plus even with current top speed nor Roadster nor Model S could not really be used on race tracks. I mean after several minutes motor/PEM heats up and vehicle go into power limited mode.
     
  8. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    The video ends when the S brakes lite comes on.
     
  9. LuckyLuke

    LuckyLuke Model S P85DL

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    Cool vid. I can't wait for all those Tesla Model S smokes Porsche/BMW/Maserati/etc vids that are bound to popup! :)
     
  10. DrJohnM

    DrJohnM Member

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    A 245 tire has a circumference of 2431.28mm (I will do this first in metric and then convert to MPH).
    The reduction gear is 9.73:1
    Motor RPM max (as you state) is 16,000
    so at 16,000 RPM, the wheel rotates 1,644.4 times in a minute. 1,644.4 * 2431.28mm = 3.998km per minute or 239.9kmh = 149mph.

    So the theoretical max speed should be 149mph. I suspect that the power required to get to that speed is just not available. Drag would increase the power load from 110mph to 150mph by 1.86x

     
  11. Zzzz...

    Zzzz... Member

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    Nice catch.

    BTW, TMC forum topic state that the race is up to 100km/h, while video claims that race were done up to 110mph. Quite a big difference i would say.

    I believe Model S RPM is 14,000, not 16,000. With that in mind you should get 130mph max speed using your calculations.
     
  12. Mr X

    Mr X Future Owner

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    #12 Mr X, Jan 23, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
    max speed and top speed do not matter, model s is not a race car.



    and its all about acceleration
     
  13. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    Your math checks out but I think the 16,000 rpm was a stab in the dark. And you really should say "I suspect that the power required to get to that speed is just not available at those motor speeds. The power in the Model S starts dropping at ~8,000 rpm due to back EMF in the electric motor (and possible heat removal requirements). With a second gear ratio the Model S Performance could easily push the car faster with its 416hp.

    But Tesla says their cars are electronically limited speed wise, and I imagine they are limited just slightly above their true power limited speeds. But they are way down on the power curve.
     
  14. Oyvind.H

    Oyvind.H Member

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    Absolutely. With the low drag Model S should have no problem hitting 150mph with its 416bhp engine. But who really need 150mph+ top speed....
     
  15. ggr

    ggr Roadster R80 537, SigS P85 29

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    It's about 14 seconds from "go" to the brake lights coming on. If they were both trying, 110mph is about right. Note that by then the E63 is going a bit faster than the Model S... I'm guessing it was probably doing the 110.
     
  16. Raffy.Roma

    Raffy.Roma Active Member

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    Agree.
     
  17. fiksegts

    fiksegts Member

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    #17 fiksegts, Jan 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    maybe a bit quicker, that E63 ran 12.08 @ 116 MPH at the drag strip...

     
  18. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    You can't use the circumference of the tire for this calculation. You have to get the RPM of the tire from the tire manufacturer's site.
     
  19. CapitalistOppressor

    CapitalistOppressor Active Member

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    #19 CapitalistOppressor, Jan 23, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
    No, the MSP does the quarter mile in ~12.4s @ ~110mph, while the 2012 E63 AMG does it in ~12.1s @ ~120+mph. The problem, as always, is that those measurements only start after rollout. In a head to head like this the MSP starts rolling immediately, while there is a brief mechanical lag on the ICE.

    This results in a head start for the MSP, but what is less appreciated is that even though the AMG (or any vehicle in this situation) accelerates faster through much of the powerband (especially at higher speeds), it has an absolute speed disadvantage for quite awhile, and then has a distance gap that it needs to close before it can pull ahead. I used to argue with M5 guys in the Model S vs BMW M5 thread about this who would insist that the M5 would pull ahead at around 70 or 80mph, when it just doesn't. It doesn't catch the Model S until they are both going 100+ mph and are getting close to the 1/4 mile mark.

    In real drag racing faster cars are beat all the time by cars that are faster quicker, and which get a head start. A quarter mile trap time of 120mph means nothing if a guy gets there before you doing 110mph because he was faster off of the line and got up to speed quicker. In drag racing driver reaction time is a big component because of this, while the ICE delays are balanced.

    When you add instant torque, those mechanical lags are no longer balanced and you end up with a big potential advantage for the MSP. Especially when Tesla drivers are smart and spoof the opposition with a "no wait! .. Ok123GO!" :biggrin:

    Edit: Just got around to reading the Delivery Update thread. Looks like the Model S driver in this video is fiksegts. If so, give us details and backstory! :)
     
  20. AustinPowers

    AustinPowers Total Smeghead

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    Well, perhaps when you want to get from stoplight to stoplight quickly, or go drag racing, ok.

    But when you want to get along on the Autobahn, the slight acceleration advantage of the S won't get you very far in the long run. So "helps cover distance"? Not really. You might reach your top speed a few seconds quicker, but then all the ICE's (and they don't even have to be of AMG caliber) come blasting past you, so by the time you deplete your batteries, they are miles away, perhaps even at their destination.

    Take normal Autobahn speeds here between about 80 and 110 mph. How much range do you get then? Has anyone tried? Perhaps not, since I don't think there are a lot of US states whithout a speed limit. Not sure though if someone has tried it out on a racetrack?
     

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