Model S vs Model X for a Ski/Camping Trip Car

[Taipan]

This thread began in the Model X forum, but I asked to have it moved here to get perspective from Model S owners. Do any of you care to chime in on the pros and cons, and anything else I may have failed to consider? Many thanks in advance.

Not sure if this was stated before in this thread -couldn't find it- but you may want to investigate how the X and its Falcon Wings will handle a roofrack, whether a cargo box or some skis/kayaks.

For an S with its regular doors, it's easy mode like any other car.
For an X, looking at the picture of the Falcon Wings in open position (they reach 2.2m high), it's a bit more mind-boggling to figure out the mecanics of a roofrack.
BTW, I asked my Tesla Center several times and they didn't have an answer yet.
Same for "How do you open them in underground parking with 2m max allowance like in downtown areas" and "How do they operate with 20-30cm of snow on roof in winter".

 

[robby]

If you're trying to do the right thing given your own psychology, you should keep in mind that a Tesla is more like a high tech gadget than a car. Do you keep your gadgets until they die? Do you find that it works best to delay buying them until exactly the right feature set is available? I find that I treat gadgets very differently from vehicles, but that might just be me. I don't yet know how I'll treat my P85, but I know that if it didn't have the auto-pilot hardware I'd already be getting antsy.

The main reason I am being so cautious is that even if you're right, treating our Tesla like a gadget isn't a possibility for us. We can't afford to go through cars like iPhones given the depreciation hit, so I am a little extra sensitive to making sure we get it right the first time.


The only feature that made me "delay" getting a Tesla was the lack of AWD. That's why we had an X reservation in the first place, and that's why the D enabled us to bail on it and get an S sooner instead.

Not sure if this was stated before in this thread -couldn't find it- but you may want to investigate how the X and its Falcon Wings will handle a roofrack, whether a cargo box or some skis/kayaks.

For an S with its regular doors, it's easy mode like any other car.
For an X, looking at the picture of the Falcon Wings in open position (they reach 2.2m high), it's a bit more mind-boggling to figure out the mecanics of a roofrack.
BTW, I asked my Tesla Center several times and they didn't have an answer yet.
Same for "How do you open them in underground parking with 2m max allowance like in downtown areas" and "How do they operate with 20-30cm of snow on roof in winter".

A roof rack solution for the X is very unlikely and all but confirmed not to exist. One of their design leads said they had a "workaround" which, based on third party info, seems to be a rear-mount hitch system. That should be great for skis and bicycles, but it doesn't give me a way to mount my Yakima Skybox 21. That's why in my original post I mentioned being able to swap the Skybox on and off the S for comparable storage to the X when needed.

Low ceilings shouldn't be a problem for the X; the dual hinge means you only need vertical or horizontal clearance at any given time, not both. If I had to guess, heating elements and climate control will play a role in opening the falcon wings through ice, but that item is less clear to me than the other two.

 

[Bet TSLA]

The main reason I am being so cautious is that even if you're right, treating our Tesla like a gadget isn't a possibility for us. We can't afford to go through cars like iPhones given the depreciation hit, so I am a little extra sensitive to making sure we get it right the first time.

Me neither. But you have to ask yourself if a Tesla will make you happy at all for most of its useful life. It will be like using an iPhone 4 while others are getting 6s, 7s, and so on. As I said, I'm not at all sure how I'll deal with it.

Given the relatively small number of moving parts in a Tesla, it's entirely possible that a normal life will be 10+ years. At that point it's likely that the new Teslas will be truly self-driving, plus they'll have other safety features we haven't even heard of yet. And stuff like automatic self-charging and integration with various new wireless networks and the internet of things. What I'm saying is that our current cars will seem primitive in a way that the automotive industry isn't at all used to. And neither are we.

Sorry, this is getting way off topic here. For me it did come up exactly the same way as for you -- AWD was a must have. Finally I decided that it was more important to just get the car and let the future take care of itself. I'm very glad I did. Best of luck with your decision.

 

[jerry33]

If you're trying to do the right thing given your own psychology, you should keep in mind that a Tesla is more like a high tech gadget than a car. Do you keep your gadgets until they die?

Until they no longer do what I want them to do. So for the iPhone this meant iPhone, iPhone4, iPhone6. For computers it meant Indy (1994), Octane 1998, Mac Pro 2008, Mac Pro 2013. (Note that both Mac Pros are still a downgrade from the Octane, and the four year life of the Indy was because I got 90% of what I paid for the Indy back as a trade in for the Octane).

 

[robby]

Here's our MS with a Sears X-Cargo 20 box with the Yakima Control Tower system that bolts to the roof mounting points. I didn't really see too much of a range loss with this setup, but I'm sure it shaved off a bit with the wind resistance. The car was loaded down, but the extra 20cf of room up top was nice. Also, we plugged into the 14-50 behind the oven since the rest of the park didn't have any for the RVs

Chris, do you by chance have any energy consumption stats for your Tesla with the roofbox on? (Also 60/85/P/P+/D?) I'm trying to estimate what my range will be when it's loaded down with ski gear.

- - - Updated - - -

Me neither. But you have to ask yourself if a Tesla will make you happy at all for most of its useful life. It will be like using an iPhone 4 while others are getting 6s, 7s, and so on. As I said, I'm not at all sure how I'll deal with it.

Given the relatively small number of moving parts in a Tesla, it's entirely possible that a normal life will be 10+ years. At that point it's likely that the new Teslas will be truly self-driving, plus they'll have other safety features we haven't even heard of yet. And stuff like automatic self-charging and integration with various new wireless networks and the internet of things. What I'm saying is that our current cars will seem primitive in a way that the automotive industry isn't at all used to. And neither are we.

Sorry, this is getting way off topic here. For me it did come up exactly the same way as for you -- AWD was a must have. Finally I decided that it was more important to just get the car and let the future take care of itself. I'm very glad I did. Best of luck with your decision.

I will be very disappointed if our 85D does not last 10+ years and keep us happy during that period. My RAV4 lasted us 20 years without any complaints. Sure, I'd have loved the latest and greatest features over the last decade but I was never motivated to take on a car payment for them. If not for the safety and environmental aspects of the Tesla, I would feel similarly today.

Safety features and fully autonomous driving are the things I can imagine convincing me to give up my Tesla sooner than 10+ years.

 

[sigurdi]

All cars give snow inside if it is 20-30cm on the roof, in our country it is not legal to drive with snow on the roof or ice on windows. If the cops sees you i will cost $150-1000 or they take your license for a month or three. (Depends on the amount of snow and ice)
Best thing to do with snow on the roof, get it off, then open the doors. X with ist glass roof and preheating should make it easy peasy.

Frunk size will be larger than the D, because the taler chassie, Trunk with third row in use should also give some space for gear, looking forward to se the numbers.
We stick to our X reservation because the ease getting in/out, need of 7 seats for adults and that we like cars with a higher driving position than the Model S.
Have been using Model S for short and long trips, and it is a realy good car, just thinks the X will be even better for our needs.
Jerome just made this impression even better a month ago. ;-)

 

[Chris TX]

Chris, do you by chance have any energy consumption stats for your Tesla with the roofbox on? (Also 60/85/P/P+/D?) I'm trying to estimate what my range will be when it's loaded down with ski gear..

I did not since the trip was only 143 miles. I went normal speeds (75+) but the last 20 miles of it was in very heavy rain, so we slowed to maybe 45MPH. There was ~20 miles of range left when we got there and we started with only a day charge @237. The AC was on and there were quite a few hills we encountered. This is in an S85 with 19s and air package. I'm sure we'll be taking it on another trip, soon, but it really didn't feel like it was that much of a drag, for what it is.

 

[dasRad]

I've run our S85 quite a few km with a roof box and I'd estimate that having the box on top costs, maybe, 10%, probably less. I can't give you a solid number as most of those miles are in winter conditions where road conditions, temperature, and wind have a much more significant effect (varying between 20% and 50%). The one longer distance trip that I have done in summer conditions was from Bellingham, WA, over the North Cascades (SR 20) and up Hwy 97 to home in Kelowna, BC. That route has a lot of hills, but is at a relatively sedate 50 to 60 mph. It cost me 196 Wh/km (316 WH/mi). I haven't done that route without the Yakima Skybox LoPro, but the best I've seen on flatter routes without the box in very good conditions is 178 Wh/km (287 Wh/mi).

Unless you do a lot of your trip above 60 mph, I would expect that effect on range due to the box would be less than the effect of your driving style and environmental conditions. At higher speeds, I expect that adding the box will become more and more noticeable in reducing your range.

 

[PQL]

Hi Chris,

I'm trying to sort out a roof rack system for my S arriving in July. I already have a lot of Yakima stuff so I would like to stay in that family. It seems that I would only need the proper landing pads and control towers to go with. If i were to get the Wispbar, I don't think I could use my existing big Yakima box. I'm not sure if that box would attach to the oval Wispbar bars. Also I have round bars that I can easily move from one vehicle to another as needed. Pretty sure the towers I am now using won't be workable on the S. I'm not where I can look at them right now.

So you just always leave the landing pads attached? Looks like just the setup I am looking for

Peter

 

[Chris TX]

Hi Chris,

I'm trying to sort out a roof rack system for my S arriving in July. I already have a lot of Yakima stuff so I would like to stay in that family. It seems that I would only need the proper landing pads and control towers to go with. If i were to get the Wispbar, I don't think I could use my existing big Yakima box. I'm not sure if that box would attach to the oval Wispbar bars. Also I have round bars that I can easily move from one vehicle to another as needed. Pretty sure the towers I am now using won't be workable on the S. I'm not where I can look at them right now.

So you just always leave the landing pads attached? Looks like just the setup I am looking for

Peter

I attached the landing pads a few days before our trip. It's just a single bolt to the mounting points and there are some nice caps that cover the points when the rails and the top part of the control towers are off. To remove it, you just unlock all four points and the whole thing lifts off without tools. Removing the points is super easy with an Allen wrench (included) and I keep them off unless I would do another trip within a week. Without the top parts, the points are maybe 3" tall and rather aerodynamic.

 

[PQL]

I attached the landing pads a few days before our trip. It's just a single bolt to the mounting points and there are some nice caps that cover the points when the rails and the top part of the control towers are off. To remove it, you just unlock all four points and the whole thing lifts off without tools. Removing the points is super easy with an Allen wrench (included) and I keep them off unless I would do another trip within a week. Without the top parts, the points are maybe 3" tall and rather aerodynamic.

Cool! thanks for that. Happy trails

 

[smac]

If you're trying to do the right thing given your own psychology, you should keep in mind that a Tesla is more like a high tech gadget than a car. Do you keep your gadgets until they die? Do you find that it works best to delay buying them until exactly the right feature set is available? I find that I treat gadgets very differently from vehicles, but that might just be me. I don't yet know how I'll treat my P85, but I know that if it didn't have the auto-pilot hardware I'd already be getting antsy.

This will open a can of worms about release strategy.... at least with iPhones it's clearly telegraphed what the road map is.

Here in the UK the launch cars came without AP then 4 weeks later started shipping with it (even after waiting years, and $5k deposits ), the P85D's ordered 11 months ago here were all superceded before they even landed in Europe

TBH It's a mugs game trying to keep up. There will be a facelift sooner rather than later, then what? Will they let us know it's coming and discount old production in advance (no, they will sell them all for full price and let the owners on the cusp take the hit!)

So to the OP, I seriously would suggest seeing if you can get a CPO'd S85D. The initial depreciation hit will be a chunk less it has AWD, plenty of space, and in the future you can always trade it in for a CPO'd X as family requirements may or may not dictate.

 

[AWDtsla]

Chris, do you by chance have any energy consumption stats for your Tesla with the roofbox on? (Also 60/85/P/P+/D?) I'm trying to estimate what my range will be when it's loaded down with ski gear.

From where you are, ski trips to NH are a problem. Killington is ok, but anything in the white mountains is not possible unless you use destination charging. This is due to the placement of the Hooksett supercharger, and no superchargers north of that near the white mountains. Of course if Tesla were to build one around Loon, this would not be an issue. But they don't seem to have any plans to do so. Model X with roof equipment in winter going up the mountains is going to be cutting it real close even for one way trips, even stopping for an hour to range charge at Hooksett. You may end up having to drop to like 55 mph (in a 70!) to do it. Note that the 90D will have 46 more rated miles than the Model X 90.

I wish this weren't the case.

 

[Cottonwood]

As long as there are 1-3 people in the car, skis, snowboards and boots fit great inside the Model S; there is no loss to additional aero drag from a roof rack. Just count on losing many miles after the ski day warming the car and its battery after it has cold soaked at the mountain.

For me, the P85D with Nokian Hakka R2's is the perfect ski car, but then again, I rarely, if ever, head to the ski mountain with 4 or more people in the car.

 

[scottm]

As far as camping goes, it has been mentioned in this thread already, you can sleep in the model S. I am 6'4" tall and easily fit fully stretched out on a queen size air matress blown up and wedged between the wheel wells. Not so sure that's possible in X, unless the rear seats fold flat into the floor or can be pulled out completely, and easily. Yet to be seen.

 

[Morristhecat]

My family (of 4) find the S great for skiing. Last year we did several mini ski trips. We fold down the right 1/3 rear seat and store the skis and poles inside, then there is still room for the 2 kids in the back and us in the front. Still have all the room in the frunk and most of the room in the trunk for gear and whatnot.

 

[donv]

I took my S skiing a few times last year, and plan to take it again this year. It's fine for 3 people, as we do need to fold down part of the rear seat. Really, it's a darn good ski car. My Audi had a pass-through ski-bag, which was a plus, but you can't have everything...