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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
You have provided no "factual data", only your own statement that it is "fact".
Here's some actual data from ANL that claims the opposite of what you are saying.
The relevant quote:
http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/106.pdf
Nor do you get points for trolling.
The "cars for the wealthy" argument always annoys me. Even worse when those whiners start taking shots at the people who are buying the car. I mean, if you really want to be an a$$ you can say that those people should be thanking those who are being early adopters and footing the bill so that the technology will one day trickle down just like with all technology including the DVD and MP3 players just about EVERYONE enjoys these days.
In fact, that's the route Tesla has chosen. There is a cage of high-performance steel surrounding the occupants of a Model S.
Hey extesla. From your moniker, we know you're a troll. Elon is doing exactly the right thing. He's started with a high-end, proof-of-concept car, and is moving to a middle-range somewhat-higher-quantity car that's EXTREMELY useful in both range and capacity, and after that, he'll be making inexpensive electric cars for the masses.
He's never, ever suggested that he had any other plan. This is the plan, and he's sticking to it.
In a simple phrase, and speaking for all of us here at teslamotorsclub.com, and I apologize for gentle eyes... Go f*ck yourself. You have no understanding of what it takes to make an electric car company survive. You don't listen to anyone who tries to explain where you've gone wrong. You're a f*cking trouble-causing troll. Get lost.
He's never, ever suggested that he had any other plan. This is the plan, and he's sticking to it.
In a simple phrase, and speaking for all of us here at teslamotorsclub.com, and I apologize for gentle eyes... Go f*ck yourself. You have no understanding of what it takes to make an electric car company survive. You don't listen to anyone who tries to explain where you've gone wrong. You're a f*cking trouble-causing troll. Get lost.
@zack
Well speak for yourself please. It is necessary to get confronted with different points of view from time to time. Helps all of us not to get into group think. Of course there is a point of not picking up a discussion, well I concede it is hard for some people to arrive at focused thoughts before posting... can accuse myself of that on some occasion or other.
Edit: Neither car will save the planet, only human action can do. So why do you jump in on a thread with a fundamentally flawed title?
Well speak for yourself please. It is necessary to get confronted with different points of view from time to time. Helps all of us not to get into group think. Of course there is a point of not picking up a discussion, well I concede it is hard for some people to arrive at focused thoughts before posting... can accuse myself of that on some occasion or other.
Edit: Neither car will save the planet, only human action can do. So why do you jump in on a thread with a fundamentally flawed title?
Norbert
TSLA will win
I don't see it as a point of view. I see it as a motivated attempt to discredit Tesla (or a mindless imitation of such attempts).
+1. Taking the high road is the better way to "win" these arguments, simply refute his/her arguments (which was easy enough) or leave the thread alone if you can't take the frustration.
In my experience peoples opinions often don't come from gathering of facts but the other way around, feelings that they try to rationalize to support their opinions. That's why its hard to change peoples minds even when presented with new evidence, their feelings about something are still the same. I think its good to realize that you may not convert someone with a quick knockout but often it takes time to let the new arguments sink in and therefore its more constructive, if your goal is not just to defend your position but to convince the other person, to be patient, calm and friendly.
surfingslovak
Member
Norbert
TSLA will win
I think the "evidence" was already known, and the arguments were already understood, before the OP posted. This is reflected not only in the user name, but also in the claim about having done "numbers":
Unless you think this is really about aluminium vs steel...
tdelta1000
Active Member
I agree with the title of the post only because it will take PEOPLE to save our planet. The Model S will help move us into that direction.
Norbert
TSLA will win
Are we also agreeing that the OP means to say that Elon's direction is not to save the planet, and that the Model S would prove it?
No one product will 'save the planet' so he's right in that sense. He's wrong about everything else though. Following his logic, Motorola should have released their first mobile phone for $400 instead of the $3,995 in 1983 dollars and had a 3 min talk time instead of a 30 min talk time. That would have been more affordable for the every man. extesla posted only to stir up problems and he got the response he wanted. Either that or he really doesn't understand how new technology works its way into the market.
Ex-Tesla
Let's look at your arguments
You cite extra battery weight- The 300 battery and the 230 battery weigh about the same. The 160 battery weighs slightly less, but not significantly less. As per most automotive manufacturers in the USA, 300 miles is standard. If you want to compare apples to apples, why put a V8 or V6 in cars or increase the size of the gas tank to go 300 miles. 10 gallons of gas ALSO adds extra weight. Using your logic, the typical gas fuel tank would be between 3 -5 gallons to not carry the extra weight and people would be filling up every other day.
Using your logic about renting a vehicle- please Google the charging station network. I could make it from Maine to Florida and back without using the same charging station (costs less and more efficient than the most efficient gas or hybrid car)
Why so focused on coal? The power in my area comes from nuclear AND I have a timer set up to charge at off peak hours. You can't stop a nuclear reaction for a few hours, they normally just vent the excess energy as waste, so off peak is actually beneficial to fully utilize the fuel and plant.
In terms of the "luxury" handles, you are talking on the magnitude of a few lbs in about a 4000 lbs vehicle. Here's an idea, to account for the motorized handles, don't get a 64 oz big gulp beverage and put it in the car. If you really want to talk about weight, consider that most of the population in the US could be characterized as overweight, so think about all that extra weight they are carrying around.
Your statement about the 500 million dollar loan does not consider that Nissan got 3 times more and FORD got about 10 times more to build electric vehicles. In terms of "bang for the buck" for the loan, Tesla actually made the car with the most utility, higher range for a lower amount of tax payer money.
The Model S is not a car for the wealthy- it's a car for the middle class. For the amount of driving I do on a daily basis, the Model S actually when all is said and done costs less than a mid-sized car. (Take a 35,000 car + 200,000 miles @ 25 mpg @ 3.25 /gal, and that's assuming all other repairs/maintenance even out, brakes, tires, oil changes, plugs, O2 sensor)
Let's look at your arguments
You cite extra battery weight- The 300 battery and the 230 battery weigh about the same. The 160 battery weighs slightly less, but not significantly less. As per most automotive manufacturers in the USA, 300 miles is standard. If you want to compare apples to apples, why put a V8 or V6 in cars or increase the size of the gas tank to go 300 miles. 10 gallons of gas ALSO adds extra weight. Using your logic, the typical gas fuel tank would be between 3 -5 gallons to not carry the extra weight and people would be filling up every other day.
Using your logic about renting a vehicle- please Google the charging station network. I could make it from Maine to Florida and back without using the same charging station (costs less and more efficient than the most efficient gas or hybrid car)
Why so focused on coal? The power in my area comes from nuclear AND I have a timer set up to charge at off peak hours. You can't stop a nuclear reaction for a few hours, they normally just vent the excess energy as waste, so off peak is actually beneficial to fully utilize the fuel and plant.
In terms of the "luxury" handles, you are talking on the magnitude of a few lbs in about a 4000 lbs vehicle. Here's an idea, to account for the motorized handles, don't get a 64 oz big gulp beverage and put it in the car. If you really want to talk about weight, consider that most of the population in the US could be characterized as overweight, so think about all that extra weight they are carrying around.
Your statement about the 500 million dollar loan does not consider that Nissan got 3 times more and FORD got about 10 times more to build electric vehicles. In terms of "bang for the buck" for the loan, Tesla actually made the car with the most utility, higher range for a lower amount of tax payer money.
The Model S is not a car for the wealthy- it's a car for the middle class. For the amount of driving I do on a daily basis, the Model S actually when all is said and done costs less than a mid-sized car. (Take a 35,000 car + 200,000 miles @ 25 mpg @ 3.25 /gal, and that's assuming all other repairs/maintenance even out, brakes, tires, oil changes, plugs, O2 sensor)
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