Model S - Window Tinting

[Gear]

Yes, and other film manufactures I have spoken to also agree with all the red flags. Myself and another reputable tinter on these forums have already pointed these things out. We are not here to flame another product, just offering advice and hoping others due more due diligence as reading a bunch of specs and claims and taking those at face value is not recommended for any product. Being in this industry for so long we have seen many of these types of claims pop up over the years and I can 100% tell you all films are not created equal! With no data to prove their claims and no installs going back much farther than last year I can find online, everyone installing it is taking a risk. Its already well known the photochromic properties can't last beyond 5 years. If it does go bad then top coat failure, delimitation, color fading, and color change should all be a concern. On the flip side I have a film I just saw that was installed 17 years ago and is still in pretty good shape after being in socal that entire time. Its starting to distort a bit but its certainly not bubbling or turning purple like all those you see driving around with a cheap film installed.

As for the pricing, I am higher priced in my area with our ceramic line and we are 50% of the cost I see people paying for this photosync. Again, the install takes the same amount of time so its pretty much gouging at those price points. A few individuals hyped this and thats all it took to spread like fire. I know some reputable companies carry photosync but thats also due to the hype as well. They are also taking a huge risk as who knows if they will have the support to replace all those installs if they turn out as warranty claims. Who is going to be there when they have no reps and 2 guys from what I could tell knew very little about the product?

As with any product having its claims verified with testing and a history behind it should always be part of researching and picking a product. Without it its just smoke and mirrors.

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and looking at Photsync's data sheet SC is higher with more VLT and a higher TSER. Explain that one as no other manufacture can do that. This is a huge red flag in their claims. 3M though is independently tested and with years of history behind it.

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and you can verify that Photosync does? Because they claimed it on a data sheet? AirBlue 80 is independently tested and verified to block 43% of the heat like someone else here just posted. You can find that LLumar and other reputable manufactures are also certified in the nfrc database to do so. This is what adds to the credibility of these companies vs one that just makes claims.

I'm good knowing that many here, myself included, have seen huge reductions in cabin heat and A/C workload. That's all I wanted. I haven't seen anybody yet report being unhappy with the Photosync.

 

[lloyds]

I agree due diligence is very important. I started to do some more research on this as well since you pointed out nfrc on several of your posts (s4life) and I couldn't find even 3M Crystalline on there. I don't purport to being a professional here, but upon a little more research it seems not every manufacturer gets this type of certification.

Certified Products Directory
(nothing on Crystalline)

Certified Products Directory
(there's only 11 manufacturers on this list. I'm assuming there's a lot more than just 11 companies making this stuff)

I think I've done more than enough research to care to continue researching. Unless my sense of heat is very different than yours (s4life) and so many MS owners here are satisfied with it (along with myself), then there's an agenda here on your part S4Life (just being honest and upfront here as your first post on TMC was negative from the start and increasingly so). And I really don't care for Crystalline after doing enough research only to find this video. In my research, I've found so much chatter about x vs y that it got me so confused and really gave me a feeling of your industry being pretty darn petty. So much attacking back and forth. This is from my perspective in a very different industry so no offense.

By the way, your talk about other installers opinions about photosynch is highly suspect. What I've seen so far is the top shops carry photosynch. I can assume that these well-known tint shops know what they are doing and are experienced in their respective industry.

And my reference to an earlier post of mine regarding McLaren only having a couple dealers in California, it seems you really don't have much experience. I'm a wealth manager and I see clients from small to mid-cap sized businesses and am very aware of business models in a vast array of industries. There are companies with wide distribution networks and some with smaller. In many ways, we the managers and analysts end up knowing the macro end of various industries better than those who are within those industries themselves. I don't know why there's a limited number of dealers per state with photosynch, but from my experience with a wide viewpoint, it is likely a supply and demand thing (who knows).

What I really don't get is why S4Life is constantly attacking a product that us MS owners have found to be very effective for this glass bowl of ours. Agenda?

 

[S4Life]

I agree due diligence is very important. I started to do some more research on this as well since you pointed out nfrc on several of your posts (s4life) and I couldn't find even 3M Crystalline on there. I don't purport to being a professional here, but upon a little more research it seems not every manufacturer gets this type of certification.

Certified Products Directory
(nothing on Crystalline)

Certified Products Directory
(there's only 11 manufacturers on this list. I'm assuming there's a lot more than just 11 companies making this stuff)

I think I've done more than enough research to care to continue researching. Unless my sense of heat is very different than yours (s4life) and so many MS owners here are satisfied with it (along with myself), then there's an agenda here on your part S4Life (just being honest and upfront here as your first post on TMC was negative from the start and increasingly so). And I really don't care for Crystalline after doing enough research only to find this video. In my research, I've found so much chatter about x vs y that it got me so confused and really gave me a feeling of your industry being pretty darn petty. So much attacking back and forth. This is from my perspective in a very different industry so no offense.

By the way, your talk about other installers opinions about photosynch is highly suspect. What I've seen so far is the top shops carry photosynch. I can assume that these well-known tint shops know what they are doing and are experienced in their respective industry.

And my reference to an earlier post of mine regarding McLaren only having a couple dealers in California, it seems you really don't have much experience. I'm a wealth manager and I see clients from small to mid-cap sized businesses and am very aware of business models in a vast array of industries. There are companies with wide distribution networks and some with smaller. In many ways, we the managers and analysts end up knowing the macro end of various industries better than those who are within those industries themselves. I don't know why there's a limited number of dealers per state with photosynch, but from my experience with a wide viewpoint, it is likely a supply and demand thing (who knows).

What I really don't get is why S4Life is constantly attacking a product that us MS owners have found to be very effective for this glass bowl of ours. Agenda?

I have zero agenda here lloyds and clearly stated its my opinion as a disclaimer. I don't think I was negative from the start, just pointing out to those following this thread that it may not be all that it appears to be and a few agreed with me, some also being experts in my industry. I stumbled across this thread just because of the S. I could say the same thing about you and an agenda as you seem to defend this film to the end and your in the vicinity of this company even. Just saying. This film is but a blip on the radar in the tint industry and barely known to most that do this work day in and out. This forum/thread alone has created most of the hype for it. I stopped my due diligence on the film when I saw the 35/45 VLT data on it claiming 75/60% but then a SHGC of .41/.30 which tells me all I need to know.

Still not sure how your reference to McLaren is relevant? Prestige is not McLaren and certainly not Tesla with some ingenious new product. I certainly don't buy a Korean company suddenly one upped all the other manufactures out there. As far as the top shops carrying it, most companies doing this type of work won't switch to a film without a history behind it as thats extremely risky to their reputation. That not saying some won't but those shops may be well known for other type of work they do. I guess the only way any of us will know is a few years from now as the desert sun won't lie.

Sorry to everyone else if this came off as a pissing match as that was never my intention. I am merely a car enthusiast and love my S to no end.

Interesting vid you have there. Not sure the tape test tells me much but its scratch resistance is pretty bad apparently. I haven't used 3M since early 90's and that was on commercial flat glass so not much I can input to that but Huper is pretty darn good. I hear 3M does not even manufacture all the components in their film but I can't verify that. After that test they may need to switch suppliers lol.

 

[darthvdr]

I'm good knowing that many here, myself included, have seen huge reductions in cabin heat and A/C workload. That's all I wanted. I haven't seen anybody yet report being unhappy with the Photosync.

Add me to the list of happy Photosync owners. Our car is quite a bit cooler than before getting it and the A/C load is dramatically less. I remember when we did not have it, our car had to be pre-cooled at Full fan speed for 15 minutes for it to be comfortable. Now we do not need to and are achieving a lower kWh than before.

 

[Gear]

Add me to the list of happy Photosync owners. Our car is quite a bit cooler than before getting it and the A/C load is dramatically less. I remember when we did not have it, our car had to be pre-cooled at Full fan speed for 15 minutes for it to be comfortable. Now we do not need to and are achieving a lower kWh than before.

I leave mine in range mode almost always, and have been comfortable even in the desert heat with the A/C running in Eco.

 

[Mr D]

I've tinted the windows and and rear with 3M Crystalline and the windshield with Photosync 75. Very happy with the heat reduction here in south Florida but I think I missed the boat on not doing the pano roof. Any thoughts? I was thinking Photosync an agin on the pano.

 

[TylerCA]

I've tinted the windows and and rear with 3M Crystalline and the windshield with Photosync 75. Very happy with the heat reduction here in south Florida but I think I missed the boat on not doing the pano roof. Any thoughts? I was thinking Photosync an agin on the pano.

I did not do the pr in the beginning because I didn't feel any heat come through until it was reaching 95+F. That was when I started to feel the heat come through the pr. I later added photosynch 35 and now do not feel the heat come through anymore when the sun is overhead. Very good heat protection and would be the first and only mod when the X comes in.

 

[lloyds]

Here's my wife's white + with the photosynch 75 on the front. Looks pretty clear and works very well in blocking the sun. I have photosynch 45 on the sides and 35 on the pano.

 

[MyJoule]

For those of you in Tucson wanting Prestige PhotoSync, looks like Affordable Windowtinting is about to become the Southern Az authorized PhotoSync dealer- I will be taking my MS there as soon as they have material in hand.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I don't believe the tint you mention does much IR blocking. That's where the heat comes from.

and you can verify that Photosync does? Because they claimed it on a data sheet? AirBlue 80 is independently tested and verified to block 43% of the heat like someone else here just posted. You can find that LLumar and other reputable manufactures are also certified in the nfrc database to do so. This is what adds to the credibility of these companies vs one that just makes claims.

There is no need to get defensive. It's natural and expected that you would promote the other products that you do sell over a product that you don't. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't need to verify anything - I am not Consumer Reports. I rely on the reputable local installers who have real, practical experience with both 3M and Photosync. My time is better spent relying on the recommendations of those who have actual experience with the product than testing the performance characteristics of tint myself. Do you have any real, hands-on experience with this product?

I had my car done by Rick at Cactus Tint who has received nothing but glowing reviews and 5 star ratings on Yelp. I know many Model S owners who have had him tint their cars, and most of them have gone with Photosync for the reason I stated. According to Rick, Photosync lives up to the hype. I did not buy it for its photochromic properties, which at 5% would be virtually unnoticeable. The only caveat to Photosync, according to Rick, is that it hasn't been on the market as long as 3M and so it hasn't withstood the test of time. It comes with a lifetime warranty just like the 3M and other products.

There is a reason why most Model S owners in Arizona - a very hot climate - are opting for Photosync. Rick confirmed that the vast majority of the Model S cars that he does also choose Photosync. The product has made a tangible and noticeable difference in not only the interior cabin temperatures, but in my car's energy usage. I've seen about a 5-10 Wh/mi drop in energy usage since having the Photosync installed, and that's in exterior temps about 20 degrees warmer than prior to tinting.

There are many great tint products from which to choose, and many reputable installers such as yourself. I chose the product that was recommended by my local installer who is very popular among Model S owners. He said that you can't go wrong with either 3M Crystalline or Photosync, you're basically splitting hairs between those two. He said there is absolutely no contest when comparing the performance characteristics of these two products with all others.

 

[Runs Kwh]

I just went to Extreme Autowerks (Cerritos) and had a full Photosync done on the car, including front (75), sides (45) and pano (I think 45). I just got my car on Tuesday and while it's not hot here in LA, I could feel the heat in the car in just 2 days of driving, particularly after I was parked outside a restaurant in the open air. The cost was $1350 for all - I thought a little expensive (or maybe a lot), but it does have the life-time warranty. The only thing I will say is that the windows are all smeared inside and out - and I "hope" the smears aren't under the film. I was told the windows would all be spotless when it was done, which wasn't the case (so I'm not happy about that). I was warned by Bing there that there would be some ripples/etc that would dissipate after a few days. I hope so. The smears on the window are my biggest concern right now though.

 

[S4Life]

There is no need to get defensive. It's natural and expected that you would promote the other products that you do sell over a product that you don't. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't need to verify anything - I am not Consumer Reports. I rely on the reputable local installers who have real, practical experience with both 3M and Photosync. My time is better spent relying on the recommendations of those who have actual experience with the product than testing the performance characteristics of tint myself. Do you have any real, hands-on experience with this product?

I had my car done by Rick at Cactus Tint who has received nothing but glowing reviews and 5 star ratings on Yelp. I know many Model S owners who have had him tint their cars, and most of them have gone with Photosync for the reason I stated. According to Rick, Photosync lives up to the hype. I did not buy it for its photochromic properties, which at 5% would be virtually unnoticeable. The only caveat to Photosync, according to Rick, is that it hasn't been on the market as long as 3M and so it hasn't withstood the test of time. It comes with a lifetime warranty just like the 3M and other products.

There is a reason why most Model S owners in Arizona - a very hot climate - are opting for Photosync. Rick confirmed that the vast majority of the Model S cars that he does also choose Photosync. The product has made a tangible and noticeable difference in not only the interior cabin temperatures, but in my car's energy usage. I've seen about a 5-10 Wh/mi drop in energy usage since having the Photosync installed, and that's in exterior temps about 20 degrees warmer than prior to tinting.

There are many great tint products from which to choose, and many reputable installers such as yourself. I chose the product that was recommended by my local installer who is very popular among Model S owners. He said that you can't go wrong with either 3M Crystalline or Photosync, you're basically splitting hairs between those two. He said there is absolutely no contest when comparing the performance characteristics of these two products with all others.

Not sure how you read that as defensive or how I am promoting any other specific product? I have many brands I would use on my own car I feel are great films, I don't carry all of them either. I am American through and through and will only use products from America whenever possible, proud to admit that too. I also simply asked how you can verify those numbers as a spec sheet from someone that does not independently test is worthless. A Korean company no less as like China are known to clone and/or make inferior products the majority of the time. Their specs are so all over the place its laughable what they are claiming. At best this film will be great and probably equal at best to the other best performers in the film industry, just don't BS people with those specs. I hope so for what people are paying for it. $1350, really? Certainly not better by 20% heat reduction though from a new comer as I play the odds and the odds are its not another Tesla on the verge. If it was it would be out there backing it up like Tesla does. I mean why wouldn't they? Hopefully some of these reputable shops will do some tests on their own. Do us all a favor and go have Rick run some tests and post them online for all of us. I would love to see that posted online as without that we will just have to wait and see over time if it lives up to the hype or doesn't. Being happy with it in the first year is no break through so it will take a few years to know for sure I guess. Good luck with your purchase and hope your enjoying the S as much as I am!

 

[liuping]

$1350, really?

Just out of curiosity, what would you charge for 3m crystalline on front windshield, sides, back and pano. $1350 is pretty close to what reputable shop here in San Diego charge for 3M.

 

[Seven7]

Had all side windows and the back window tinted with cheap Madico tint, didn't do the windshield. $150 If you want your car done send me a pm and I will give you Gibsons phone number, he works out of his home in Sarasota.

 

[TylerCA]

Not sure how you read that as defensive or how I am promoting any other specific product? I have many brands I would use on my own car I feel are great films, I don't carry all of them either. I am American through and through and will only use products from America whenever possible, proud to admit that too. I also simply asked how you can verify those numbers as a spec sheet from someone that does not independently test is worthless. A Korean company no less as like China are known to clone and/or make inferior products the majority of the time. Their specs are so all over the place its laughable what they are claiming. At best this film will be great and probably equal at best to the other best performers in the film industry, just don't BS people with those specs. I hope so for what people are paying for it. $1350, really? Certainly not better by 20% heat reduction though from a new comer as I play the odds and the odds are its not another Tesla on the verge. If it was it would be out there backing it up like Tesla does. I mean why wouldn't they? Hopefully some of these reputable shops will do some tests on their own. Do us all a favor and go have Rick run some tests and post them online for all of us. I would love to see that posted online as without that we will just have to wait and see over time if it lives up to the hype or doesn't. Being happy with it in the first year is no break through so it will take a few years to know for sure I guess. Good luck with your purchase and hope your enjoying the S as much as I am!

I agree with other members here. It is best to just let it go as it is seems like you have a hidden agenda as lloyds suggested. So many Tesla owners here are extremely happy with their choice of photosync. On the other side of the coin, you as a new member spends 95% of his / her posts speaking negatively about a product that I along with other TMC members have been very satisfied with. Move on, otherwise, you are building what seemingly is a grudge against those of us who have purchased this tint. I have photosync on my P85+, LP700, 458, F10 M5, and Range Rover because we are just that happy with it. Planning on getting it for the 12C and the incoming 918. What I have grown to love about photosync is that it is transparency is high, so from the outside it doesn't look tinted. Yet, it feels very comfortable even on a hot day.

You can provide your disclosure about being unbiased, but in the end, with 95% of your posts being negative towards us and this tint I have to question your conjecture.

 

[S4Life]

Just out of curiosity, what would you charge for 3m crystalline on front windshield, sides, back and pano. $1350 is pretty close to what reputable shop here in San Diego charge for 3M.

I am not going to get all deep into pricing as that is a touchy subject for tint shops so don't want to offend others. Its a highly guarded trade secret and all and you don't know the handshake :biggrin:. Even in the back room on the tint forums nobody talks pricing, never understood why truthfully. I can tell you $1350 is way high though, like they saw you coming with the new shiny S. I would feel guilty charging someone that much honestly. Sad thing is some of these shops don't even do it right and charge that much with average skilled tinters.

 

[liuping]

I am not going to get all deep into pricing as that is a touchy subject for tint shops so don't want to offend others. Its a highly guarded trade secret and all and you don't know the handshake :biggrin:. Even in the back room on the tint forums nobody talks pricing, never understood why truthfully. I can tell you $1350 is way high though, like they saw you coming with the new shiny S. I would feel guilty charging someone that much honestly. Sad thing is some of these shops don't even do it right and charge that much with average skilled tinters.

For someone who demands independent verification of Photosync and criticizes the prices people are paying, you loose all credibility in my mind if you will not even state what you would charge.

For all I know you do not own a Model S or install Tint. Sorry, but I need that to be independently verified, before I will believe anything you have to say at this point.

 

[S4Life]

I agree with other members here. It is best to just let it go as it is seems like you have a hidden agenda as lloyds suggested. So many Tesla owners here are extremely happy with their choice of photosync. On the other side of the coin, you as a new member spends 95% of his / her posts speaking negatively about a product that I along with other TMC members have been very satisfied with. Move on, otherwise, you are building what seemingly is a grudge against those of us who have purchased this tint. I have photosync on my P85+, LP700, 458, F10 M5, and Range Rover because we are just that happy with it. Planning on getting it for the 12C and the incoming 918. What I have grown to love about photosync is that it is transparency is high, so from the outside it doesn't look tinted. Yet, it feels very comfortable even on a hot day.

You can provide your disclosure about being unbiased, but in the end, with 95% of your posts being negative towards us and this tint I have to question your conjecture.

I just reread my last posting and I don't see anything as to what your stating. I spoke subjectively and with truth so no need to get all internet hurt for no reason. Isn't a forum all about discussion? Where everyone can share their opinions even if they don't share your view? I certainly never talked negative about anyone directly (95% against us?) here or became uncivilized. Just cause you don't like what your hearing does not make it any less valid than another view does it? I was answering posts to my posts, isn't that how it works? Do you get to speak for everyone here?

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Had all side windows and the back window tinted with cheap Madico tint, didn't do the windshield. $150 If you want your car done send me a pm and I will give you Gibsons phone number, he works out of his home in Sarasota.

Madico was considered a pretty good film and I used it like 25 years ago at a shop I got my first job at. I have not looked at their line in some time but it used to be reputable so I doubt you will have many issues with it. Florida by the way is notorious for dirt cheap window tint jobs so even a good film is hard to get high prices since so many tint for next to nothing there with cheap film. I grew up in Orange/Lake County area by the way. I hear in Miami you can still get $79 tint jobs, but they probably don't even roll down your windows when tinting for that price! $150 is pretty darn cheap but its above minimum wage for a tinter still so some probably think its better than nothing.

 

[S4Life]

For someone who demands independent verification of Photosync and criticizes the prices people are paying, you loose all credibility in my mind if you will not even state what you would charge.

For all I know you do not own a Model S or install Tint. Sorry, but I need that to be independently verified, before I will believe anything you have to say at this point.

Not sure where I demanded anything I simply said they should back those numbers up. The discussion is about tinting a Model S not me, but its apparent a few of you even when asking me questions if you don't like the answers I provide even though they are 100% civil you get hostile. I simply would not give you a price when you asked me a question and I suddenly have to verify my credentials? You could almost make a case for bullying here since I don't share your a few of your views? Like saying leave cause were not liking what you say, thats pretty sad if I may say so. I did not come here with an agenda or to start some internet flaming session. I simply offered a different view from a different perspective than what was being shared on this thread.

I am not alone here either, many have gawked at those prices in this thread (more so from the east coast), many have also stated they don't believe the specs of that particular line of film, or don't like its color, or it had prism effects and so on. Should they verify their credentials or just let it go? If you don't agree, thats fine, then don't reply or ask me a question? Its really that simple isn't it?

 

[S4Life]

I agree with other members here. It is best to just let it go as it is seems like you have a hidden agenda as lloyds suggested. So many Tesla owners here are extremely happy with their choice of photosync. On the other side of the coin, you as a new member spends 95% of his / her posts speaking negatively about a product that I along with other TMC members have been very satisfied with. Move on, otherwise, you are building what seemingly is a grudge against those of us who have purchased this tint. I have photosync on my P85+, LP700, 458, F10 M5, and Range Rover because we are just that happy with it. Planning on getting it for the 12C and the incoming 918. What I have grown to love about photosync is that it is transparency is high, so from the outside it doesn't look tinted. Yet, it feels very comfortable even on a hot day.

You can provide your disclosure about being unbiased, but in the end, with 95% of your posts being negative towards us and this tint I have to question your conjecture.

Tyler, I went back through some of your posts as I want to make sure I am seeing my posts from your perspective. I am a bit OCD at times so forgive me, I just wanted to make sure I was not in the wrong or could not see my behavior as I will man up and correct that if I did so. I am also not trying to be some smarta$$ so take that for what its worth. It was never intentional thats for sure but after reviewing your posts I have to say I still don't see where you think I did any of that or how its any different than your posts.

You have 100% of your posts as being positive for Photosync and quite a few of them on this thread so you must really really like it. Mine was apparently 95 negative. Our views differ yes but how are we any different?

LLoyds seems to feel much like you do about the Photosync and me. Thats all I have to say about that.

You are not a fan of Huper, some others probably are, but your entitled to your opinion. I personally think its a pretty good film. Its not American made so thats my only mark against it.

You also kind of were hard on Moe which by the way like me is in the tinting profession. Moe by the way was 100% correct in all his posts and was flamed by the same few I am dealing with in this last few posts. Both of us just offered our view and experience didn't we? Note I do not know Moe other than from what I can tell is spectacular work on this forum, that was just my observation. I did not see anything negative in his posts either. I can't speak for him but it was underserved from my view. Since he was representing his business I can see why he did not want to get involved further. I on the other hand am not here to represent any business and like deep discussions about tinting and try to reply when asked questions to best of my ability. After all I have done it a long time.

You have a pretty nice collection of cars which I have to give kudos for, I am sure I am not alone in envy. I though am pretty darn happy with the S so that will have to do on my budget.

Lets just leave it at we agree to disagree.