Model S winter tire experiences

[Struja]

Going to call BS on this one. Totally disagree.

For a starter, that posting referred to https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=181 , which compared different performance winter tires. There is a huge difference between "performance" winter tires and actual winter tires. It did not compare the Sotozeros against Hakkapeliitta or XIce3, which would blow them out of the water.

Secondly, dismissing people's experience as "anecdotal" is insulting. In my case, not only did I switch from running Sotozeros to XIce3 on the same car - with a massive improvement in performance - I also swapped back-and-forth in short order due to getting a loaner car from Tesla with the Sotozeros. The difference was NOT subtle!

On a RWD Model S in very slippery conditions, the Sotozeros could not even climb a slight incline from a standstill. The car would not move an inch, it just sat there! I had to resort to TC off to get it to move at all. This is something that happened with painful repetition with the Sotozeros - multiple times each winter. In comparison, once I switched to XIce3 they never got me stuck like that even on a steep hill. Not once.

Your description of the Sotozeros performance makes me wonder if you've ever driven in real winter conditions. You say that you can't get the car to slide at all. In typical snowstorm conditions here there isn't a car on the road that isn't sliding quite a lot, no matter how good the car or the tires. Your location appears to be "California", which makes me think you don't experience anywhere near the conditions we do here in Ottawa, Canada. We're in the snow belt, and we get real winter.

I agree. Anecdotal evidence may not be full proof but it is certainly valuable. Like @Doug_G said, my anecdotal experience with the X-Ice 3's has been great. Both from a performance perspective but moreso from a noise perspective.

 

[calisnow]

I have used Blizzaks and Hakka's. No doubt the Hakka's are better but this year I am going with X-Ice 3's. Not because I think they are the best but both the Blizzaks and Hakka's were terribly noisy and I am hoping the Michelin's are quieter.

Awww crap I ordered the Hakka R2's and they get here tomorrow.

 

[Struja]

Awww crap I ordered the Hakka R2's and they get here tomorrow.

You are in LA no? Do you really need winter tires? We are expecting as much as 6 inches tonight, so the need is always present.

 

[steveho]

Going to call BS on this one. Totally disagree.

For a starter, that posting referred to https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=181 , which compared different performance winter tires. There is a huge difference between "performance" winter tires and actual winter tires. It did not compare the Sotozeros against Hakkapeliitta or XIce3, which would blow them out of the water.

Secondly, dismissing people's experience as "anecdotal" is insulting. In my case, not only did I switch from running Sotozeros to XIce3 on the same car - with a massive improvement in performance - I also swapped back-and-forth in short order due to getting a loaner car from Tesla with the Sotozeros. The difference was NOT subtle!

On a RWD Model S in very slippery conditions, the Sotozeros could not even climb a slight incline from a standstill. The car would not move an inch, it just sat there! I had to resort to TC off to get it to move at all. This is something that happened with painful repetition with the Sotozeros - multiple times each winter. In comparison, once I switched to XIce3 they never got me stuck like that even on a steep hill. Not once.

Your description of the Sotozeros performance makes me wonder if you've ever driven in real winter conditions. You say that you can't get the car to slide at all. In typical snowstorm conditions here there isn't a car on the road that isn't sliding quite a lot, no matter how good the car or the tires. Your location appears to be "California", which makes me think you don't experience anywhere near the conditions we do here in Ottawa, Canada. We're in the snow belt, and we get real winter.

I also agree with this disagreement. It is pretty easy to get any car/tire combination to slip and slide. I drove the MS with Xice3 tires last winter and on snow it's pretty good, but on ice, it still slides, not as much as all seasons, but it does in fact slide.

This year I have a MX, but when it was at the service center, the loaner was a P85D with Pirelli Sottozero Winters on it. It was a blast, but standing acceleration, I could feel each time it dialed back due to slippage because of snow. I don't know where your evidence is coming from.

As for my comparison of Xice3 vs Sottozero winters, I feel the Xice3 has more snow and ice traction than the Sottozeros. But the ride is softer, and the Sottozeros felt more like the all seasons I had on the car, a firmer ride. So I felt that with the sottozero winters, you gave up a little winter traction to keep more of the sport feel. The xice3 tires were mushy riding, but had better traction.

 

[calisnow]

You are in LA no? Do you really need winter tires? We are expecting as much as 6 inches tonight, so the need is always present.

I'm in Wisconsin all winter this year. My home is in L.A.

 

[bhzmark]

Any winter tire is way better than any All season. I don't know of any real evidence that there is significant difference between Sottozero3 and Xice/Nokian. There could be some, but they are all much better than all seasons. And to the extent the performance winter tires give up a little snow and ice traction, they may be better in cold dry traction, and I think a key issue is that they are appropriately speed rated for the car amd it's load. I will still make long and fast dry highway runs during the winter and need a tire that is appropriately rated to the heavy model s --- not sure the non Tesla specified tires are..


2014 AutoBild 235 35 R19 Winter Tyre Test - Tyre Reviews

Winter tyre reviews 2016/2017: results by category

2015 Auto Bild Performance Winter Tyre Test - Tyre Reviews

2013 Auto Bild Sports Winter Tyre Test - Tyre Reviews

 

[jeffpaul]

I had Sottozeros on my Golf R. In short, I think the best takeaway is this:

The performance winter tires are definitely better than any all season tires, but certainly not as good as actual winter tires.

On an AWD vehicle in the PA/NY/NJ area where I live, I think they're fine for all but the most severe conditions we get here. Our winters don't compare to our friends up north though.

 

[bhzmark]

The performance winter tires are definitely better than any all season tires, but certainly not as good as actual winter tires.

Perf winter tires are full winter tires, with the true winter tire symbol rating. I still haven't seen any review or rating or other evidence that show that they materially different in snow or ice, or on dry cold highways.

Would be nice to see something other than anecdotal speculation with unclear factual and evidentiary basis. The best I've found are the links above to actual reviews which are quite positive for snow and ice performance.

For instance, the first link stating

1st: Pirelli Winter Sottozero 3
Total: 41 / Dry: 6 / Wet: 7 / Snow: 9 / Comfort: 5 / Rolling Resistance: 8 / Noise: 6
Positive: The winter king with superb handling on snow and wet roads. Precise steering with good feedback. Excellent aquaplaning performance and low rolling resistance
Negative: None mentioned
Overall: Exemplary

 

[jeffpaul]

bhzmark, take a look at the video review on tirerack.com. They give a pretty good overview of how they're different from other winter tires.

 

[Scott_K]

I agree. Anecdotal evidence may not be full proof but it is certainly valuable. Like @Doug_G said, my anecdotal experience with the X-Ice 3's has been great. Both from a performance perspective but moreso from a noise perspective.

Can’t agree more. I got the 19” Michelin X-Ice 3’s put on my Model S, and they’ve been rock solid this winter through slush, snow and freezing rain. Highly recommend to anyone needing winters.

 

[Chaserr]

P85+ on staggered 21" summer tires in light snow: unable to move. Wait, it's worse than stationary - car falls off the road sideways at 1 mph.

Same car on 19" Blizzaks: Car drives perfectly fine in thick snow.

 

[CRASHER]

Had X-Ice this winter and no regrets, all coming winters will have only X-Ice.

 

[cantanko]

Had Tesla-supplied SottoZero III's on my 75D a few weeks back after the stock Michelin all-seasons proved to be little more than sleds in what was ultimately a poor show of a snow shower in the English Midlands.

Subjective impressions are thus:

• Flooring an uncorked 75D with the summer tyres in the dry or in most wet conditions was effortless and took very little concentration. Barely ever saw the traction control light appear, but I reckon it was approaching the limits of grip given the odd chirp from the front every now and then. The SottoZeros feel way more "grabby" in the wet (i.e. slip-grip-slip-grip) and TC is more pronounced, suggesting less grip in a given set of conditions. That characteristic is way less pronounced in the dry, but the tyres feel more "squirmy" under load, a bit like you took them by surprise. Equally, hard braking feels marginally less controlled than the all-season boots.
• The SottoZeros are so damned quiet compared to the Michelin all-seasons! Again, subjectively, it's gone from "rather quiet" to "almost disturbingly quiet". On snow, driving with the windows down, you can barely hear the car at all. The SottoZero III's have that PNC (Pirelli Noise Cancelling?) thing in them - a ring of foam around the inside of the tread face. Have to say it certainly makes a hell of a difference to the extent that one of my work colleagues commented "ooooh - I don't like it. New. Strange. Wanna get out..." :-D
• SottoZeros are less "pointy" than the all-seasons and also feel like they have way softer sidewalls. It does rather feel like you've fitted marshmallows rather than tyres... Very relaxing if you enjoy relaxed driving however, which is exactly the kind of driving you should be doing in the winter on public roads...
  
• The SottoZero's have the excellent attribute of actually gripping well in snow, versus the stock all-seasons which simply turn your vehicle in to a voyeuristic Newtonian physics experiment. You may be in the driving seat, but you're well and truly a passenger until you come to a complete stop - controlled or otherwise!

 

[Lynch]

I have used Blizzaks and Hakka's. No doubt the Hakka's are better but this year I am going with X-Ice 3's. Not because I think they are the best but both the Blizzaks and Hakka's were terribly noisy and I am hoping the Michelin's are quieter.

Ditto. Nice compromise between the really-soft Nokkians and the crappy Pirellis that came with my winter rims. (Was constantly getting stuck on 1 degree slopes with the Pirellis!)

I am using the Hakka's for my winter tires and will be curious to hear it the Michelin's are quieter.

Any updates on how the X-Ice 3 directly compares to the R2 in terms of noise and stiffness?

I am really curious to know if the X-Ice 3 is actually stiffer (assuming that means less squirmy around the corners), as well as quieter than the R2.

I have the R2 right now and need to get a new set of tires, so appreciate any firsthand experiences on this.

 

[Doug_G]

A friend of mine got the Nokians, and he was complaining that they were too flexible. He says they have less stability at high speeds due to the soft sidewalls. The XIce3 definitely do not have that issue.

The XIce3 are noisier than summer tires, but they aren't bad. Certainly I don't find them annoying or anything. It's just that I notice it when I first switch over to them. After a week I don't notice it unless I listen for it.

 

[Kruegmeister]

So if you get the Winter Package with TPMS, do you have to re-pair each time you swap the tires out?
Also if anybody has pics of them on their car that would be helpful?
Tossing up between a set Rial Lugano off TireRack & Model S 19" Slipstream Wheel and Winter Tire Package in Grey (Looks Black??) Bit more money, but I want it to look nice on the car too...

 

[Struja]

Any updates on how the X-Ice 3 directly compares to the R2 in terms of noise and stiffness?

I am really curious to know if the X-Ice 3 is actually stiffer (assuming that means less squirmy around the corners), as well as quieter than the R2.

I have the R2 right now and need to get a new set of tires, so appreciate any firsthand experiences on this.

Hi @Lynch,

I haven't used the Hakka's in a long time, but as far as my winter is concerned, the X Ice 3's are leaps and bounds better than the Blizzak's both in performance but also in cornering, wet handling and road noise, which is very important to me.

The only thing I can remember is that they are definitely quieter than the Hakka's but I remember the Hakka's being better in the now, especially the deep heavy stuff.

 

[OlderThanDirt]

I have the Rial Lugano in silver with X Ice 3’s mounted. Extremely pleased with this combination. They really stick when conditions are bad. I’m on the road before the plow runs frequently. The gray are on the darker side I would say.

 

[bhzmark]

Winter/snow tire Ratings

Giving up a little snow and ice traction for better wet and dry traction, will be a good trade off for some people.

 

[David.85D]

So if you get the Winter Package with TPMS, do you have to re-pair each time you swap the tires out?

Yes, you have to relearn. Push the button then drive for 10 minutes or so. The driver can do it on the touchscreen. Does not require a service center.