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Model X 90kWh battery pack degradation

Discussion in 'Model X: Battery & Charging' started by KOL2000, Dec 10, 2017.

  1. KOL2000

    KOL2000 Member

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    Hi all. I have noticed rather extreme degradation of my 90 battery pack on the X (P90D). The car was purchased last March has 24k miles. At full charge was about 255 miles full charge and 90% was 225. Now, it’s 235 for a full charge and 208 for 90%.

    This, despite what some are saying, is not normal based on my experience with my 2013 model s (p85+) that is almost 5 years old with 54k miles. Full charge on that is now about 255 and new was 263. 90% charge now 228 was 235 so very little degradation.

    Do we have recourse? Basically just deal with it? Does anyone have a story where Tesla actually did anything besides telling you it’s normal??
     
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  2. BrokerDon

    BrokerDon Active Member

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    Wow that is disappointing. Our 2015 P85D has 35,000 miles on it and charges to about 253 miles at 100% (only ~ 8 times) and 226 miles at 90%... Almost identical range as the day we bought it as an inventory car with 2,900 miles on it.

    Disturbing your 90kW battery range is almost identical our my 85kW range... and our P85D has had plenty of full power Insane launches, Supercharger visits, and a couple of depletions to < 5%.

    Is your 90kW battery a v1, v2 or v3 ?
     
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  3. KOL2000

    KOL2000 Member

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    No idea what version. Built March 2016 vin # 616. Now has less range than our 2013 P85.

    Pretty upsetting but I feel like our complaints will fall on deaf ears if we tell Tesla.
     
  4. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    Tesla doesn't warranty gradual battery degradation at all, they only warranty failure. (But some have found they can make Tesla warranty rapid degradation.)

    And the X is a bigger/heavier car so it is going to use more power to go the same distance as an S does.
     
  5. Tiger

    Tiger Active Member

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    The mileage estimate depends on your driving habits, less on actual battery capacity. The more aggressive driving, the less range.
     
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  6. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Active Member

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    The 90 backs degrade significantly faster than the 85s so its not surprising that your 90 is worse off than your 85. Your degradation on the 90 is probably towards the crappy end of the spectrum, but I doubt Tesla will do anything about it since its basically a fleet wide issue.
     
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  7. KOL2000

    KOL2000 Member

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    This really sucks. I am a little surprised there is not more outrage. I remember when people were pissed about slightly lower than expected performance in P85D there were lawsuits and people losing their minds. Here we have 90 packs basically deteriorating to near 75D levels in less than 2 years...
     
  8. jgrgnt

    jgrgnt Supporting Member

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    I'll add a data point. Non-performance 90D, ~16k miles, also purchased in March 2017.

    100% charge: 252 miles (257 new)
    90% charge: 227 miles (231 new)

    So degradation is less than 2% so far, and it's been stable at this level for at least four months.
     
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  9. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 100D 2020.48.30

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    Based on the OPs signature, I believe he meant March 2016, not March 2017. I think they changed the 90 battery once or twice since it was originally released. The early ones did show lots of degradation.

    FWIW, I have an S 90D delivered 12/2016. Over the past year and 9700 miles, my 90% range has decreased from 265 to 263/264. I think my 100% is ~293, down slightly from 294/295.
     
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  10. jgrgnt

    jgrgnt Supporting Member

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    Whoops, I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out!
     
  11. vandacca

    vandacca ReActive Member

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    OP, two things to consider:
    1. Range is provided as an estimate. It uses average voltage measurements and runs it through an algorithm. This estimate can become "off" as times goes on
    2. You can "reset" the algorithm by driving the X down as close to 0% as you feel comfortable and then charge back up to 100%. This will force the battery to rebalance the cells and typically causes greater range to be reported
    If you still see significant degradation after rebalancing the cells, then you can contact your SC to have them look at it. They won't likely do anything unless they see a significant problem. Before your 8-year warrant expires, make sure you go through this process again, because if there is an issue with your battery, it should be easier to identify the longer it's in use.
     
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  12. Ames

    Ames Member

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    I have a December 2015 P90D (with the dreaded 1st gen 90 battery). The first time I supercharged the day after delivery I got 380 km (236 miles). Today I get 345 km (214 miles) so its nearly down 10%. My wife's 75D has more indicated range than my P90D, and even more when driven economically. I set my range indicator to % so range loss doesn't annoy me.
     
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  13. davidc18

    davidc18 Active Member

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    Tesla owes you a new battery. They will resist but others have prevailed and received new 90 packs. They usually require an NDA to receive the new pack which is why there is so little public discussion. That said, if you do some digging and PMing you can get all the information you need to proceed. The lemon law is the usual starting point. Once you file and Tesla receives notice, they will become much easier to deal with. It can take up to one year to get the new battery and in some cases, Tesla will offer to buy the car back. I would start with your state AG website and research lemon law case settlements. In florida the mediation panel nearly always sides with the consumer. Tesla was ordered to repurchase on MS last year for a noisy AC. Battery capacity loss is a slam dunk. Good luck.
     
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  14. KOL2000

    KOL2000 Member

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    I think you are right. Just got back from big bear. Upon arrival we had about 8% remaining and used 66 kWh (see “since last charge” in pic) so there’s only about 72 kWh usable in my 90 battery. When we first did this trip 18 months ago in worse weather I had about 20% remaining so there is no doubt that the battery had degraded atleast 10% since delivery.
     

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  15. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

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    Me too. It certainly seems like something is inherently wrong with the 90's. Silicon?
     
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  16. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    That's not an accurate measurement of how much energy you used as it doesn't account for everything...

    Jeff
     
  17. KOL2000

    KOL2000 Member

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    Thanks Jeff. Could you clarify? I know people say there is energy used for heating battery, etc. Is that not reflected in the 476 wH/mile number?

    If not then why in the world is the energy consumed some sort of mythical secret that nobody can figure out?
     
  18. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

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    A couple things. First, energy usage while the car is off is not counted. Also, on *some* vehicles there is a bottom buffer below 0% of order 1-2 kWh.
     
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  19. KOL2000

    KOL2000 Member

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    The car was never off. It finished charging and was directly driven and a picture was taken upon reaching destination. Besides, I did the exact same trip in worse weather last year and had more than double the miles remaining upon arrival.

    These kinds of calculation antics just dont add up. The energy used is the energy used. These 90 kWh batteries are simply not anywhere close to 90 kWh.

    This is bullsh$t.
     
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  20. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    There have been many discussions and reports. It seems to be commonly accepted fact that the 90 batteries degrade faster than any other battery.
     
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