Model X and S 12V battery finally going Li-ion

[Rice&Curry]

Tesla's new Model S and Model X get rid of lead-acid 12v battery, move to Li-ion — Electrek

 

[Les236]

I wonder if we can use this as a replacement for earlier model X and S's.

 

[scottf200]

38:18 was Elon saying the new S/X will have a lithium 12v.

Elon Musk Interview: 1-on-1 with Sandy Munro • Feb 2, 2021

 

[TMThree]

wonder how close it is to the lithium batts ohmmu sells.

https://www.ohmmu.com/product-page/12v-lithium-battery-for-tesla-model-3

 

[scottf200]

wonder how close it is to the lithium batts ohmmu sells.
https://www.ohmmu.com/product-page/12v-lithium-battery-for-tesla-model-3

3s are not getting it that we know of. Maybe in the future.

I was already considering getting one for my X when I need it in a ~2.5 years.

X - https://www.ohmmu.com/product-page/12v-lithium-battery-for-tesla-model-x
S - https://www.ohmmu.com/product-page/12v-lithium-battery-for-tesla-model-s

Why go [lithium]/Ohmmu?

1. Increase reliability
2. Longer lasting (more life)
3. Decrease weight
4. Increase capacity
5. Increase power (no voltage sag, better 12v performance, especially for subwoofers/amplifiers)
6. Less waste (less batteries being used and less material in each battery)
7. Increase efficiency (Ohmmu 12v charges and discharges at a higher efficiency than Lead Acid/OEM)

 

[LargeHamCollider]

I’m going to bet these things cost Tesla closer to $50 than to $439...

 

[TMThree]

I’m going to bet these things cost Tesla closer to $50 than to $439...

I'm going to guess you won't be seeing a $50 price tag, since you can't even get a regular 12v for that. And tesla seems REALLY good with their pricing. Try to get a new bumper for your tesla compared to anyone else.

 

[jboy210]

I thought the goal was to eliminate the 12-volt battery and use the main battery. It seems very strange to have a 12-volt battery in an EV regardless of that battery's chemistry.

 

[Hammer John]

I thought the goal was to eliminate the 12-volt battery and use the main battery. It seems very strange to have a 12-volt battery in an EV regardless of that battery's chemistry.

It has to do with the required high voltage to run the traction. You can't trivially change 400V DC to 12V DC. And you don't want to use 400V for the seat motors.

 

[jboy210]

It has to do with the required high voltage to run the traction. You can't trivially change 400V DC to 12V DC. And you don't want to use 400V for the seat motors.

Thanks for the info. Any idea why would Elon have previously talked about eliminating the 12 V battery? Maybe Elon, being Elon?

 

[TMThree]

I thought the goal was to eliminate the 12-volt battery and use the main battery. It seems very strange to have a 12-volt battery in an EV regardless of that battery's chemistry.

The 12v battery also provides the power necessary to throw the relay which connects the main battery. Without this, the relay connecting the main battery will not close, and the main battery remains disconnected. The car cannot turn on, and cannot run or be charged.

I assume the main battery gets disconnected for safety reasons

 

[animorph]

Tesla/Elon want to go with a 48V system to reduce wire sizes, but there are probably not enough options for auto accessories using 48V at this time. There will probably always be a secondary battery to power the car while the high voltage battery is disconnected. Strange but necessary.

 

[FirstInTown]

Daughter's 2019 Kia Niro hybrid has no standalone 12v battery. The main hydrid Li Ion battery has one section set aside for providing 12 volts. It is covered by the 8 year hydrid battery warranty, since it isn't a separate replaceable part. Nice not to have weight or space used by standard battery. Plus for her it will be a 'lifetime battery' on that car.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Daughter's 2019 Kia Niro hybrid has no standalone 12v battery. The main hydrid Li Ion battery has one section set aside for providing 12 volts. It is covered by the 8 year hydrid battery warranty, since it isn't a separate replaceable part. Nice not to have weight or space used by standard battery. Plus for her it will be a 'lifetime battery' on that car.

This seems to be the better idea, and perhaps something that Tesla will consider once they go to the structural battery pack?

Odd that Tesla didn't do this first, however, as this concept has many weight, wiring, and space benefits as well.

Further research reveals that while your post is very informative there is a bit more to the story, and the Kia's HV is absurdly small. This isn't quite an apples-to-apples comparison. From the interwebs:

Something new
A unique aspect of the Niro is that instead of using a regular 12-volt battery for starting the car and powering the accessories, Kia decided to install a small lithium-ion battery underneath the rear seat, alongside the hybrid system’s 1.56-kWh battery pack. If the small battery runs out of juice, the owner can simply press on a dash-mounted button labeled BATT RESET, and the bigger battery will transfer a portion of its energy to the smaller one.

Source:

2017 Kia Niro: The Troublemaker

 

[FirstInTown]

Further research reveals that while your post is very informative there is a bit more to the story, and the Kia's HV is absurdly small. This isn't quite an apples-to-apples comparison. From the interwebs:

No, not trying to say it's the same, as her's is the Niro Hybrid with an ICE gas engine. The small battery Li_ion is like a Prius, only for regen on braking and then help accelarate. Actually, the car goes a very short distance and turns on the gas, not like a full EV at all.

The point is ALL cars need 12v now for all those 12v things like radio, computers, door locks, remote Key detection, etc. Kia did away with this 12V lead-acid and just made a separate small part of an already small Li-Ion battery be setup for 12volt of output. And because it's part of the pack, 8 year warantee. Tesla could have done this, as the traction battery is MUCH larger.

 

[jboy210]

Tesla/Elon want to go with a 48V system to reduce wire sizes, but there are probably not enough options for auto accessories using 48V at this time. There will probably always be a secondary battery to power the car while the high voltage battery is disconnected. Strange but necessary.

Unfortunate. On my airplane, it used 24 volts and they could get by with thinner wires and associated weight reduction.

 

[Richbot]

There are several OEMs on 48v architecture now. It's a "changing the wheels on the bus while it's going down the highway" problem, not a supply problem.

EV 12-volts is a no-duh LiFePo application. The car never really stops needing a little bit of 12v, much mroe so thane ven the most vampiric ice cars, constant low draw, which lifepos are excellent for; AGM, not so much.

 

[127.0.0.0]

Speaking of battery which cells would Model S / X long range be using ? 1860 ? or 2170 ? Also even I guess the plaid variant ? Any idea?

I hope 2170 since at-least that be up to current gen that way.

 

[Yinn]

It has to do with the required high voltage to run the traction. You can't trivially change 400V DC to 12V DC. And you don't want to use 400V for the seat motors.

You might if your Teslas are owned and operated by the Texas State Prison.

'Congratulations, your last meal will be available at any drive through. Yes, you must utilize the self driving Tesla to get the food"

 

[boonedocks]

Speaking of battery which cells would Model S / X long range be using ? 1860 ? or 2170 ? Also even I guess the plaid variant ? Any idea?

I hope 2170 since at-least that be up to current gen that way.

18650. New chemistry but same size as always. Plaid+ will have the latest and greatest 4680