Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)

[e-FTW]

Tesla stated there was a 5 second unobstructed view of the barrier for the driver.

“The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider with the crushed crash attenuator, but the vehicle logs show that no action was taken.”

Fair point. Was just surprised at such a definitive statement, with not time frame around it. No car in front, at any point or at any distance?
Those details are important. But I get what he/she said now, thanks.

 

[thegruf]

anyone got any more pictures of the deformed crash structure before the Tesla accident?

I am trying to work out if it presented a planar surface at a slight upwards angle that may have deflected the radar return upwards thereby meaning the MX radar didnt get a return, possibly explaining why it may not have seen the obstacle.

 

[Az_Rael]

In the case of the fire truck, perhaps it fell into the overlap where it was unavoidable by the driver and beyond the abilities of the car to detect

My theory on that one was he had a follow distance set too close. Supposedly the driver couldn’t see over the pickup he was following, which equates to “following too close” in my mind. With TACC set at 7 I can see around a pickup in front of me. So, unavoidable by the driver only because he wasn’t leaving enough space to have time to react.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Now I feel better about buying my Kia. First the massive recall of over 100K cars and now this. Maybe I'll buy one in a few years when they've had time to reflect and understand how to build these cars safely.

Because Kia has never had recalls....

Kia recalls 342,381 Souls for second time for steering flaw

Yet the Model X:

Tesla Model X earns a perfect NHTSA safety rating

I'm glad you're happy with your choice, I'm happy with mine. Understanding the limitations of the vehicle you choose to purchase, or the company you choose to purchase from, is part of responsible vehicle ownership.

 

[Krazaak]

They keep touting their safety record vs the standard. But that standard includes drunk drivers and teenagers. What is the deadly accident rate for drivers with AGI 200k and up?

Well, the Tesla numbers include drunk drivers and teenagers as well...

 

[Raven]

Interesting: Missing warning poles?

View attachment 290757

It’s where the several feet of crush barrier was before it was destroyed in a previous accident a couple weeks prior and removed.

 

[pdxgibby]

They keep touting their safety record vs the standard. But that standard includes drunk drivers and teenagers. What is the deadly accident rate for drivers with AGI 200k and up?

The hidden inequality of who dies in car crashes

This data is 8 years old, but adds some data to this point.

 

[Krazaak]

My theory on that one was he had a follow distance set too close. Supposedly the driver couldn’t see over the pickup he was following, which equates to “following too close” in my mind. With TACC set at 7 I can see around a pickup in front of me. So, unavoidable by the driver only because he wasn’t leaving enough space to have time to react.

Yeah, I wasn't going to press the issue. I try to avoid that exact same scenario. If I can't see around the vehicle in front of through its windows, I keep further back.

I actually keep the TACC follow distance at 2, sometimes 3. I've found that maintaining what I would consider a safer following distance invites bad behavior on the part of other drivers, constantly cutting into the larger gap. Of course, when I'm actually following that close, I'm even more vigilant to what's going on.

 

[JRP3]

Interesting: Missing warning poles?

Up thread it was shown that those were old support post holes from a previous barrier, not warning poles.

 

[JRP3]

It’s where the several feet of crush barrier was before it was destroyed in a previous accident a couple weeks prior and removed.

Actually a different type of barrier, not the newer crush barrier.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

They keep touting their safety record vs the standard. But that standard includes drunk drivers and teenagers. What is the deadly accident rate for drivers with AGI 200k and up?

I think the AGI for a Tesla owner is more around the 125k and up on average. More importantly I imagine we have a lot more younger drivers than other 100K+ cars.

In terms of fatalities I don't think Tesla can tout anything due to two high profile fatality accidents, So that leaves them with accidents per mile.

Personally I don't read much into any of that stuff. Obviously the demographic of a Tesla buyer is different than the average.

We don't have the young "drive it like you stole it" demographic, and we wouldn't even count them because they wouldn't use AP.

There is likely MORE cell phone usage in our demographic as we're extremely tech centric. So we're likely have a much high concentration of distracted drivers.

The owners are given a choice that only very few other cars offer. That choice is to put your life in the hands of technology that by design requires human oversight. Some owners will see it as adding additional protection, and other drivers will see it as an excuse to txt.

From a liability standpoint I don't fault Tesla for the fatality accident. Not even partial blame because the driver is responsible for driving the car. It's only a driver assistance package.

I do fault Tesla for failing technology wise. This was on their home turf, and on a road traveled extensively by Tesla vehicles. I see it as completely inexcusable that it failed.

 

[X Fan]

Then why provide setting 1 to 5 ???

It's actually 1 to 7.....for bumper to bumper traffic I use 1; 20-35 5 and when on highway always at 7. Plus, when traveling in a known dangerous area (ie construction zone, highway merges, etc.) I take over.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Our Tesla with AP2 had an affinity for these types of barriers long before 10.4. I've never owned an AP1 Tesla, but we do own a Nissan Rogue with Mobileye which seems to work just about like AP1, and the Rogue has never had a bromance with lane barriers. So... it's definitely a Tesla thing.

It does of course have limits, and these limits are why drivers still have to pay attention and intervene at times. While we were testing on the inside lane of one of the highway curves, the car started drifting outward, and went far enough that the lane departure warning triggered and I had to add some steering input. This is not a fully autonomous system. Nissan's representatives warned us that the adaptive cruise control can't overcome some speed differentials (i.e. going from highway speed to a stop in a short period of time). So if traffic comes to a slow or a stop very quickly, the driver may have to provide stopping power manually. Additionally, while the automated steering generally does a good job of keeping the car centered, there were a number of times that it drifted farther to either side than I would go driving in full manual.

Nissan's ProPilot Assist definitely isn't an autopilot, but is still quite useful

Despite your experience, it seems that Pro-Pilot has an affinity for drifting regardless of barriers...

 

[X Fan]

Now I feel better about buying my Kia. First the massive recall of over 100K cars and now this. Maybe I'll buy one in a few years when they've had time to reflect and understand how to build these cars safely.

Funny....1.2 Million Kia's and Hyundais were recalled for engine failure...
Hyundai and Kia Recall 1.2 Million Cars for Engine Failures | News | Car and Driver

 

[MXWing]

Funny....1.2 Million Kia's and Hyundais were recalled for engine failure...
Hyundai and Kia Recall 1.2 Million Cars for Engine Failures | News | Car and Driver

Yup and nobody cares because they are Hyundai's and Kia's.

 

[wallstguy]

Funny....1.2 Million Kia's and Hyundais were recalled for engine failure...
Hyundai and Kia Recall 1.2 Million Cars for Engine Failures | News | Car and Driver

Those also didn't cost a 150k lol.

What about Porsche or Audi?

 

[MXWing]

This accident hit home for me because for these reasons.

• I went past the accident site 10-15 min after it happened on the other side of 101. Saw the scene with my own eyes.
• I ordered my model x few days back, due in June.
• This route is my everyday commute
• I was planning to use AP to ease my 1 hr commute.

When I test drove the model x, I already felt this is no where close to what I was thinking.
My first reaction looking at the damage was, this must be autopilot because it is very unusual for somebody to drive into the lane divider at freeway speed and cause that kind of damage

I don’t think I’ll use AP in outside of stop and go traffic. Certainly not above 35-40 mph. And never with family in the car. I think Tesla should restrict the the autopilot on high speeds.

I would not be making pre-judgments on a system you don't have extensive and practical experience with.

You don't have the experience to determine for yourself what should be permissible and what is not permissible.

You certainly don't have the experience to determine for others what should be permissible and not permissible.

And no, this is not a personal attack.

This is putting emotion and hysteria aside and laying out reasoned and factual arguments.

And never with family in the car.

And the first time you engage AP with your family in the car - are you going to return and walk back your statement?

I don't like the hidden undertones that you are somehow more responsible than the rest of us who do engage AP with family in the car..

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Those also didn't cost a 150k lol.

What about Porsche or Audi?

Audi recalls 330,000 cars in Germany on possible electrical problem

Porsche recalls vehicles with cracked fuel pumps - Recall Masters

Those are the recent ones...

However, the OP was talking about happily purchasing a Kia over a Tesla...because apparently they don't have issues.

 

[22522]

Does anyone know when the TomTom high resolution GPS "Beaten path" software comes on line?

As I see it, autopilot should not drive off the beaten path at highway speeds.

This information would have helped with line selection coming into the gore zone. I use it all the time on the mountain bike to stay out of trouble.

 

[MP3Mike]

Does anyone know when the TomTom high resolution GPS "Beaten path" software comes on line?

? What are you taking about? That isn't anything Tesla has talked about is it?