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Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)

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Bottom line... CalTrans is still an accident waiting to happen. The worst management and accountability in the nation.

+1

Fwiw I’ve driven past that spot every day for the past 2+ years, and maybe weekly for many many years.
I recall the mangled attenuator before the Model X crash, and the lines on the road were literally non existent.
Almost immediately after the Model X crash the attenuator was fixed (too late, Caltrans) and elaborate lines have been painted.

Through this corridor the roads are horrendous. Potholes and rough roads everywhere.

Caltrans repair is nearly non-existent afaict.
 
The NTSB has issued a recommendation as they continue to work on the final report for this accident. This is really Captain Obvious kind of stuff, about CalTrans not leaving crash attenuators... attenuated. The government may be slow, but in this case, appear to be moving in the right direction.
1. Press release
2. Full text
I was pretty loud about my contention that Caltrans made the lanes in such a manner they direct traffic straight into the death points in the first place. The original design of the intersection was to naturally gradually move people straight into the new lane and overpass without any confusion, swerving, or other insane driving styles. Before the crash, Caltrans came back and repainted everything to direct the traffic in the lane which is destined to go over the freeway to first go straight toward and very nearly into the death point, but then splattered some paint on the road indicating drivers have to swerve at the last fraction of a second to get into the overpass without dying into the death point. It's totally stupid swervy lane-making that Caltrans started doing in LA decades ago and now has brought up here to North California. I ignored their deadly lane markings, and drove straight into the overpass, except that I was aware of their criminal lane markings.

Since then, Caltrans probably read what I said, and wanted to make no possibility of confusion, so has permanently moved the physical freeway median barriers on the left to FORCE people into the lane that leads straight into the death point, with the abrupt swerving PHYSICALLY NECESSARY to pass over 101 onto 85 at that point, not just splattered in lane markings as had caused the autopilot (and many other drivers) into the crash.

The main fault was always Caltrans, always has been for nearly every crash into that death point, and still is, now, with their new alignment. Gradual lane merging and separation is the right safe way to do freeways, and Caltrans has been on a mission to erase that proper methodology, and it is criminal of them to do so.

Anyway, if they're fixing their band-aid measure of that "crash attenuator", then that is better than not doing so, so there's that.

To whatever extent the Model X was responsible for murdering the Apple employee, that is the fault of Tesla and the driver of that Model X, but I must point out that Caltrans aligned the lane markings in such a way that that was and presumably still is a frequent outcome regardless of driver ability. I myself have caught myself following other cars in that lane before Caltrans moved the medians but after Caltrans moved the paint, looked in my mirrors as I'm supposed to do, and when I looked forward, found myself hurtling straight toward that very death point with no cars in front of me, in only a fraction of a second. That lane alignment is murder. Of course, I swerved as necessary to not die. Presumably, Tesla is responsible for not properly making such an emergency swerve, and I myself have almost been killed by Tesla AP trying to swerve me INTO death TWICE before I sold my Model S, so it's Tesla's fault for not telling people to not use AP as much at that time when Tesla was not able to swerve properly.

There's no doubt in my mind that criminal Caltrans and false advertising and instruction Tesla were both contributing causes of the accident, primarily Caltrans, and secondarily Tesla and the driver of the Model X.
 
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There was no recommendation about the way the lanes split and the "gore area" that led the MX into the barrier. The two car pool lanes split and there is a center area that can even confuse a human since there were multiple crashes at that site, double the average. Something should be done so that it does not look like there is a center lane between the two car pool lanes.
 
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Those "crash attenuators" were deployed all over to replace sand/water barrels because they are "reusable" (can be "reset" many times) so in theory would cost less taxpayer money in the long term, but the statistics on their effectiveness and ability to be reused were based on crashes into them when they are in the "reset and ready" configuration. If they are left in the compacted state and cars crash into them that way the chance of death and permanent damage to the attenuator is much much higher and not in line with the statistical data that manufacturers suggest.

I am of the opinion that a crash into a pre-compacted attenuator is worse that if they had just crashed into the bare cement wall. It is like a hard metal knife blade at that point. Not a fan...
 
I have driven past there on autopilot a couple of times and it didn't stray into the gore area... *but* so did large numbers of other drivers before it was "fixed", and before the fatality happened. It was apparently a random confluence of factors that day that led to the crash. Lack of chevrons was probably part of it, but so was (possibly) sunlight angle, Tesla following closely behind another car that went into the gore area, etc., etc. So it isn't a really clear cut differences, more just another proper helpful measure that should have been there all along.
 
I love the enthusiasm & loyalty of Tesl Owner’s. However it keeps them from acknowledging weaknesses in the car. All the comments about how the roadway and markings and signage could have been better. No one is stating that Tesla’s autopilot has serious limitations. If a human would have safely navigated it, but the autopilot didn’t, then it’s the fault of the autopilot. Either don’t call it autopilot (maybe call it “lap child pilot” instead), or own up to the limitation. As Tesl owners we have a duty to hold the company up to higher ethical and technical standards, not be blind followers (go to church instead).
 
If a human would have safely navigated it, but the autopilot didn’t, then it’s the fault of the autopilot.

But many humans have not safely navigated it. Which is why the crash attenuator was already collapsed. And that particular location has been one of the most frequently hit in California. Which leads a lot of people to think that maybe there is something wrong with the road layout/markings in that location.
 
.... No one is stating that Tesla’s autopilot has serious limitations. If a human would have safely navigated it, but the autopilot didn’t, then it’s the fault of the autopilot. Either don’t call it autopilot (maybe call it “lap child pilot” instead), or own up to the limitation.
I find it difficult to believe that you own a Tesla with Autopilot. This discussion about the use of the term "Autopilot" by Tesla has been brought up by those who do not understand the meaning of autopilot and uniformly do not own a Tesla. Tesla uses the term "Autopilot" in the same way that aviation and ship navigation use the term. The common definition of autopilot follows:

An autopilot is a system used to control the trajectory of an aircraft, marine craft or spacecraft without constant 'hands-on' control by a human operator being required. Autopilots do not replace human operators, but instead they assist them in controlling the vehicle.​

As any owner of Tesla Autopilot understands, the system does not replace the driver, but instead requires the full attention of the driver while the system is engaged. This is made quite clear in both the owner's manual and in the language that comes up whenever Autopilot is selected by the driver. I do not know of any Tesla owner who thinks that Autopilot is full self driving.

As to your claim that "no one is stating that Tesla's Autopilot has serious limitations." That statement is clearly untrue. The "serious limitations" of Autopilot are that it drives like a teenager with a learner's permit. But that is simply the nature of the Autopilot system. The "serious limitations" is that it can't be trusted. If a Tesla driver doesn't understand these limitations, then he or she shouldn't be using the driver assistance package. Because that is what Autopilot is: a driver assistance package. It is not full self driving.

If you actually do have Autopilot, I suggest you don't use it. Obviously, you are one of a very small minority that doesn't understand that it is there to assist you, not drive for you.
 
This discussion about the use of the term "Autopilot" by Tesla has been brought up by those who do not understand the meaning of autopilot and uniformly do not own a Tesla. Tesla uses the term "Autopilot" in the same way that aviation and ship navigation use the term

The funny thing about that old Autopilot terminology debate is Tesla now calls the system “Full Self Driving”. So Tesla cleared that misconception right up.

And at least some Tesla owners do have that misconception about the name Autopilot. Just read the interview from the NTSB for the fellow who hit the fire truck on AP in Culver City.
 
No they don’t. Lane keeping and TACC are called auto pilot. You know that!!!!

Sure, you and I know that. But what about a buyer today who checks the FSD box to get NoA? Are they not going to think that system might be more capable than it is? It’s called FSD after all and they paid extra for that so it must be more capable than regular Autopilot or Tesla wouldn’t have called the package FSD. When someone in a brand new Raven is using Navigate on Autopilot, they are using Tesla’s “FSD”.

I have seen plenty of brand new owners posting that they were using “FSD” when they were operating their cars on NoA. Because that is what they bought, so it is the terminology they know.
 
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Sure, you and I know that. But what about a buyer today who checks the FSD box to get NoA? Are they not going to think that system might be more capable than it is? It’s called FSD after all and they paid extra for that so it must be more capable than regular Autopilot or Tesla wouldn’t have called the package FSD. When someone in a brand new Raven is using Navigate on Autopilot, they are using Tesla’s “FSD”.

I have seen plenty of brand new owners posting that they were using “FSD” when they were operating their cars on NoA. Because that is what they bought, so it is the terminology they know.
Yeah, Tesla buyers got a lot dumber after you and I.

We live in a culture that used to aspire to responsibility, and now aspires to victimhood. “The big bad car company did this to me”. I hope this is culturally temporary.
 
Yeah, Tesla buyers got a lot dumber after you and I.

A member reminded me... I’ve got to be clearer with sarcasm or maybe not use it! :)
My “buyers got a lot dumber” comment was a sarcastic disagreement with the post I responded to. I think buyers today are the same cross section they always were, less far along on the learning curve, but catching up quickly! As per Bruce’s request I’ll stay off the driver responsibility discussion here, though I believe it totally relevant to this crash.
 
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