Model X Falcon Doors

[Surf Dog]

We Need Options For The Falcon Wing Doors On The Model X

simplest solution: allow us kayakers/skiers/bring it home ourselves drivers to choose suicide doors as an option, maintaining easy access to the third row and flexibility for cargo options on the roof. We'd probably already be on the reservation list if this were an option.

I agree. All I am asking for is options. I expect that the Falcon Doors may appeal to some, but they have issues that will tend to limit the Model X's market segment, especially for the more active outdoors oriented people who need a SUV to carry their toys.

Elon Musk has said that he is a big proponent of "Optionality". This is a perfect example of the need for Options.

I would absolutely love to have a Model X, but I cannot imagine how I would be able to carry all the equipment that I have always easily carried on my roof. The Luggage Carrier Pictured would be fine for smaller items, but would never do for the large 40+ lb. kayaks that I routinely carry 2 of, and sometimes as many as 6-8 of. Many people are getting into SUPs (Stand Up Paddling) Those boards could not be easily carried on the Model X with Falcon Doors either.

 

[Rodolfo Paiz]

Driving a vehicle with falcon wing doors in the Pacific Northwest means you chop down 1,000 year old Redwood Trees on the weekends as a hobby.

You're trolling, right? Or are you really saying that you -- or anyone -- equates driving a modern electric car with zero emissions and nearly 100-mpge efficiency to reckless environmental destruction... just because the doors open up rather than forward?

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I agree. All I am asking for is options. I expect that the Falcon Doors may appeal to some, but they have issues that will tend to limit the Model X's market segment, especially for the more active outdoors oriented people who need a SUV to carry their toys. Elon Musk has said that he is a big proponent of "Optionality". This is a perfect example of the need for Options.

If Tesla had sufficient available time and resources, and their perception was that market demand justified the creation of two Model X variants based on the door style, then it makes perfect sense. But it seems to me that changing the door style is probably -- note the "probably" -- a change of sufficient import, complexity, and cost so as to be prohibitive for Tesla at this stage in their development. I think it's more like that, as someone said, for the next 2-3 years appealing to even 20% of the potential market for this vehicle would still be a massive win and sell every car they can make.

My guess is that they make ONLY a falcon-wing Model X right now, and add a variant with different doors (conventional, suicide, whatever) in a couple of years if they perceive that the market demands it and they can profitably supply it while also staying on target with the Gen3 vehicle timeline. But hey... that's just my guess. Let's see what they do.

 

[100thMonkey]

...
My guess is that they make ONLY a falcon-wing Model X right now, and add a variant with different doors (conventional, suicide, whatever) in a couple of years if they perceive that the market demands it and they can profitably supply it while also staying on target with the Gen3 vehicle timeline. But hey... that's just my guess. Let's see what they do.

I'll state it really clearly as an owner of an S (and a Leaf) and investor in TSLA and potential owner of an X. When the X is offered with regular or suicide doors or once it's clear that there is otherwise a way to fit cargo on top of the X with the kind of flexibility people expect of an SUV, I predict that demand for the X will explode, perhaps even beyond that of the S. The combination of a guilt free fully functional SUV with a nationwide, free for life, supercharging network will be irresistible. It's a matter of business, forget what I want personally, what's best for Tesla is surely tapping into what has got to be a huge market!

The best hope for folks like me at the moment is that the Falcon wing doors are designed with a second position, being able to open up enough to get in and out of from the second hinge, if pinned with a standard roof rack (and kayaks etc) on top... if that's the case, I'm in, otherwise, we will surely have to settle for a hybrid or PHEV SUV, non-Tesla, which I really, really don't want to do. Whatever the solution Tesla has, or thinks they have, I wish they'd hurry up and tell us what it is!

 

[MikeL]

To state (and repeat) my thoughts on the subject - the FWDoors are about access to the inside of the car, not what you put on top of it. A vast (and cool) improvement in one aspect of the car's function that, in this case, seems will compromise another.

This is an electric car with almost unbelievable amounts of cargo space inside. Getting maximum efficiency from its propulsion system, aka "range" :wink: is as important a feature of the car's performance as any other, IMO. That is, at least now, in these early days of the EV takeover, "Range Matters". There are few simple things one could do to reduce a car's efficiency that are more effective than driving around w a rack on the roof. It's right up there with under-inflated tire(s).

Even if the doors disqualify some potential buyers, Tesla will easily sell all the Model Xs they are able to make, a prediction made by others. I agree.

Im trying to think of the last time I saw a rack on an X6, or a Cayenne or . . . Oh yeah, it was never. Of course there are some, just trying to make a point.

I've seen the well-traveled white X in person. The doors do something new and cool and different. I'm thinking they will be loved by a wide margin majority when we get our Xs out into the world. I've been a skier, climber, boater, camper for 40+ years. I throw all my junk inside! ML

 

[ryanjm]

Speaking as a 12+ year owner of a DeLorean, I love the car's gullwing doors for many reasons -- including practicality. On the DeLorean, they require 12" of horizontal clearance, thus allowing me to hug walls and generally park absolutely anywhere -- places I could never park in a standard car -- and still get in and out of the car with the same level of comfort as I always have. They're perfectly fine in the rain, and in Model X you won't even have to reach up and pull them down to close them yourself; you get a button to push that closes them for you.

In short, I think a LOT of you are going to be won over by the Model X's doors once you actually get to try them in the real world.

 

[RDoc]

Speaking as a 12+ year owner of a DeLorean, I love the car's gullwing doors for many reasons -- including practicality. On the DeLorean, they require 12" of horizontal clearance, thus allowing me to hug walls and generally park absolutely anywhere -- places I could never park in a standard car -- and still get in and out of the car with the same level of comfort as I always have. They're perfectly fine in the rain, and in Model X you won't even have to reach up and pull them down to close them yourself; you get a button to push that closes them for you.

In short, I think a LOT of you are going to be won over by the Model X's doors once you actually get to try them in the real world.

But the front doors are still normally hinged designs so the Falcon Wing doors won't help close parking. Sliding doors will open in a lot less than 12 inches.

The main issues people are seeing with the doors are (1) ice and snow on the roof preventing the doors from opening and/or falling into the car, and (2) the preclusion of using a roof rack and simultaneously accessing the rear seats. Since this is supposed to be an SUV, many people, myself included, would like to be able to have roof cargo and use it on trips where snow and ice building up on the car may happen, e.g. ski trips.

Unfortunately, I also agree that Tesla will sell all they can make, so they can do pretty much whatever they want to.

 

[Electroman]

I hardly see anything mounted on the roof on cross over SUVs on the road.

Full size SUVs, yes. But rarely on cross over SUVs.

 

[JRP3]

I don't see where snow and ice would be such a problem, it's never been an issue with the hatch backs I've owned. They don't fill up with snow when I open the hatch.

 

[JakeP]

Speaking as a 12+ year owner of a DeLorean, I love the car's gullwing doors for many reasons -- including practicality. On the DeLorean, they require 12" of horizontal clearance, thus allowing me to hug walls and generally park absolutely anywhere -- places I could never park in a standard car -- and still get in and out of the car with the same level of comfort as I always have. They're perfectly fine in the rain, and in Model X you won't even have to reach up and pull them down to close them yourself; you get a button to push that closes them for you.

In short, I think a LOT of you are going to be won over by the Model X's doors once you actually get to try them in the real world.

I like your unique perspective here...you would think as Tesla owners, we could all think a little more "out of the box"!

 

[100thMonkey]

I like your unique perspective here...you would think as Tesla owners, we could all think a little more "out of the box"!

if success is certain for the X then no biggie if a few of us don't like the falcon doors, my main worry is that 10,000 reservations at this point in the game suggests a somewhat anemic market for the X. I'm pretty convinced that whatever the market is, that Tesla could ramp up to it, so I see no reason for them to hold back on options just because they will "sell all they can" with the current limits. You'd think that with all that is on the horizon with the super charging network, and considering how successful the S has been and how America loves SUV's, that there would be a lot more reservations by now. I contend that if/when Tesla reveals that a roof rack can still be used either through another door option or through a locking wing hinge position that allows a full roof rack without any fancy moving cargo thingy, that the demand for the vehicle will increase substantially and that if they had done that sooner, that the reservation list would be much longer. If Tesla has a solution to allay the concerns I see no reason for them to continue withholding it, a longer reservation list would put Tesla on firmer ground in terms of current valuation and assessment of long term viability.

 

[JRP3]

Let's be real, the percentage of roof racks that are ever used is extremely small. I realize it's important to a few, but that's it, a few. Plus there are a number of possible solutions which would allow a roof rack that some seem to be ignoring.

 

[JakeP]

100th Monkey, I don't know if we can draw a parallel on Model S and Model X reservations. With Model S, you had to get in line. With Model X, you can just buy Model S now, which has almost the same capacity. When we know more about the final production looks and options, I bet reservations will increase. And it will be very interesting to see side-by-side sales numbers when both are in production.

 

[Barry]

I hardly see anything mounted on the roof on cross over SUVs on the road.

Full size SUVs, yes. But rarely on cross over SUVs.

You don't say where you live, but here, I see ski racks, kayaks, and bicycles on the roof all the time.

 

[Jeeps17]

I don't see where snow and ice would be such a problem, it's never been an issue with the hatch backs I've owned. They don't fill up with snow when I open the hatch.

Yes, but your hatch is unlikely to extend a third of the way into the roof of the car on each side.

Even when you clear the top of a vehicle with a long handle brush, if there is ice mixed in there it is very hard to get it off the vehicle, and pieces could easily fall inside the cabin when falcon doors are opened.

The X remains a vehicle that interests me a great deal, but my wife has it in for those doors... I'll have to wait and see.

 

[bonnie]

if success is certain for the X then no biggie if a few of us don't like the falcon doors, my main worry is that 10,000 reservations at this point in the game suggests a somewhat anemic market for the X. I'm pretty convinced that whatever the market is, that Tesla could ramp up to it, so I see no reason for them to hold back on options just because they will "sell all they can" with the current limits. You'd think that with all that is on the horizon with the super charging network, and considering how successful the S has been and how America loves SUV's, that there would be a lot more reservations by now. I contend that if/when Tesla reveals that a roof rack can still be used either through another door option or through a locking wing hinge position that allows a full roof rack without any fancy moving cargo thingy, that the demand for the vehicle will increase substantially and that if they had done that sooner, that the reservation list would be much longer. If Tesla has a solution to allay the concerns I see no reason for them to continue withholding it, a longer reservation list would put Tesla on firmer ground in terms of current valuation and assessment of long term viability.

Wait, what? You're saying that 10K+ reservations before a beta version of the X has been shown, much less pricing announced (not to mention far more reservations than the Model S at this point in the timeline) is anemic???

Huh?

 

[aronth5]

Wait, what? You're saying that 10K+ reservations before a beta version of the X has been shown, much less pricing announced (not to mention far more reservations than the Model S at this point in the timeline) is anemic???

Huh?

double huh? The reservation rate is actually very impressive IMO

 

[napabill]

Were it not for the Falcon Wing doors, I wouldn't even consider the MX. What I like about my MS is that it is a bit radical, and yet is still extremely practical. An MX with mini-van doors does not meet that threshold.

 

[Tedkidd]

You don't say where you live, but here, I see ski racks, kayaks, and bicycles on the roof all the time.

Yeah, I like my Thule box, but I'd rather have x wings than be able to carry my box. People with kayaks gonna buy X's, guess they'll need trailers. I'm not putting bikes on a roof ever again, hitch mount or inside.

We tend to SEE what we find interesting, but SEE is not statistical analysis, and it certainly is not quality thinking when it comes to making design decisions. It is also a sign of weak argument in debate.

For every suv and minivan sold, what percentage has a roof rack that ever sees use? If the number is meaningful you would continue, see who comprises that market and determine if they comprise a meaningful number of X buyers. I suspect Tesla didn't even have to go this far to realize it was nonstarter.

Making business decisions on wishes and hopes rather than letting numbers speak for themselves is stacking the deck against yourself. Tesla doesn't seem to ever make such missteps.

 

[Blip]

Were it not for the Falcon Wing doors, I wouldn't even consider the MX. What I like about my MS is that it is a bit radical, and yet is still extremely practical. An MX with mini-van doors does not meet that threshold.

Well, that is just the oposite from how I think. People are different, and most of us "foreigners" think a bit different than typical Americans. In Norway, cars and petrol are a bit more expencive than in the US. People typically own 1 or maximum 2 cars, and these cars must fulfill all needs. This means people tend to buy relatively small, expandable cars (cars with a hitch and roof rack).

This is the main reason I want an MX: It will have room for my whole familly including luggage, skis or bicycles the few times we go for longer trips. Today (or next year), MX is the only EV available with a decent range and space. For every-day use, we could just as easy get another Leaf. For the other trips, we need the space and expandability the X gives. Why people want another "show-off" car is what I don't get. But then again, people are different... My point is that this forum seems to be flooded by fanboys seeing everything Tesla and Elon does as The Correct Thing. Maybe I am one of them, but please don't take every other opinion as negative criticism.

I've reserved our X over a year ago. Even so, the doors are still a "problem" as long as the ski/bicycles/box issues are unsolved. I am not saying they won't be solved, but just because You never put your bicycle on the roof, does not mean I won't. It strikes me that this discussion has similarities with the Android vs iPhone, where Apple-fanboys tend to use the ever-winning argument; "You don't need it!".

My point is that I don't think the doors is what will sell the Model X. I Norway (Teslas second largest market), Model X with "normal" doors would be "Gen 3".

 

[jerry33]

Why people want another "show-off" car is what I don't get.

The doors aren't for show-off. They're so that you can easily place a child seat in them without wrecking your back. They also allow third row passengers to get in and out without removing the child seats. In North America child seats are mandatory when children are riding in the car.