Merrill
Merrill
Welcome to Tesla, glad you are enjoying your X. Coming from having Mercedes and Jaguars my whole life once I drove my first Tesla in 2012 I never looked back.
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MXLRplus
Active Member
While a rather early review, here what I find on the 2020 LR+ cars.
Good:
Needs improvement:
Overall:
I really need to do a long family trip to fully evaluate it. But happy family in a Green Car is what it's all about in a family car.
Good:
- Panoramic roof blows your mind.
- Massive center display is massive, and nice.
- Quality of Rear Camera is A+, I've not seen a car with a better one.
- Being able to drive with the Rear Camera displayed is superior to Digital Rear View Mirror technologies. It a better image and easier to focus on.
- Tons of cargo storage everywhere, frunk is large even though AWD, and it has a 5000lb hitch. For many people this can replace a pickup or truck frame SUV.
- Homelink is easy to setup and works very well. Other mfrs should pay attention.
- Driver's seat is roomy as are all other front 4 seats.
- Infotainment system has good response time.
- Comfy suspension has adjustable ride height.
- TACC is among the easiest to use among all brands. The "default set speed function" is great.
- Autosteering is good, easiest to use among popular brands.
- Falcon wing doors are useful and an attention getter.
- TeslaCam and Sentry are good. More mfrs should pay attention.
- Tesla staff really knew about the car functions, which all other EV makers need to address. It's sad when a new buyer knows more than the staff does.
- Family LOVES this car. Wife wants to steal it from me, unlike my other EVs.
Needs improvement:
- Insufficient number of USB ports which happen to be old school 2.0's. No USB-C or 3.1 Fast Charging ports. 2.0-only is >10 years old.
- 3rd row seats are not for tall people unlike other 7+ seaters. This is a 5+2 car, which is still champ of EVs.
- Interior sound levels at 70 mph are higher than average, not just highest in it's segment.
- Static losses while parked are the highest I know of an EV.
- Needs an easy fob-based "Lock Tight" function so walking by the car won't trigger it. They aren't the only culprits, this is all too common now. But the Tesla fob will actually open doors over 25' away through a wall.
- Rear seats need some kind of storage. Center seat should fold down for 4 passenger comfort.
- Software still has bugs. I have had to reboot computer 3 times so far in 2 weeks because functions have locked up, including the Owner's Manual, and Charging menu items. Sorry, I forget what the third reboot was.
- Regen is derated under many mild driving conditions even below 50% SOC. 60-70kW is not that much today, but often you don't get that.
- Owner's manual needs an update to the update. Does not accurately reflect the hardware that ships with the car.
- Initial quality rates a C. Paint damage and incorrectly installed/fabricated truck storage bin.
- Buying experience was clumsy. Delivery day instructions were good but too rushed. Never say to a buyer - "Sorry, I'm out of time for you, go home and enjoy." This occurred after 20 minutes of inspection and orientation. Not wise on a car as different as a Tesla is.
- The 351 mile range indicator was not correct as sold. Four Tesla staff said it was correct as did the website. It was ~290 miles on delivery day.
Overall:
- The handling is good for an SUV.
- Ergonomics are good.
- Family Factor is A+. We are very happy with the car as a family.
- Needs some spit and polish. Oddly the areas that could be improved are in general cheap fixes.
I really need to do a long family trip to fully evaluate it. But happy family in a Green Car is what it's all about in a family car.
MXLRplus
Active Member
I have not been able to fairly evaluate the range yet due to rain. Rain gives poor readings. My initial experiences would point to 290 miles of real world range. I might try tomorrow to get a more detailed read on it.
What it has to beat is the Jaguar I-Pace. It should easily beat that even though the I-Pace has been boosted to 258 miles (not filed with EPA yet). The Hyundai and Bolt do not count since they really aren't nearly the size of the Model X and do not offer AWD or towing. And the MX would spank them and put them to bed without supper in a passing distance contest.
MXLRplus
Active Member
Finally did my first range test.
Conditions:
50-60°F, I did not need the heater or AC. I had preheated the car and charged it to 100% or 352 mi indicated.
It is 4 miles to the freeway. I drove until ~56% SOC, then turned around without stopping and took the same route to eliminate wind factor. Wind was very light.
Used the Interstate 15 from Corona to almost Baker, California. Terrain involves a climb of about 3600 feet, but it occurs both ways.
Used TACC and Autosteering. Normal driving mode. 45 psi cold, 20" wheels. ~270lb of total cargo. Hitch was mounted, nothing on it.
Car/tires had ~250 miles on it.
Freeway driving was set at 75 mph, but had to slow to 70 mph at times, and had to pass at 85 mph a couple times. Pretty much like I drive in a 70 mph zone when I am not in hurry.
SOC start 100%, SOC end 14%, consumed 78.3kWh. Miles driven (odometer) 229.3mi 3h14m 342Wh/mi = 266.6 miles drop dead range @ 75 mph. Battery holds 91 kWh.
Review - The Range estimator is basically a voltmeter with a table corrected to 100% = 354 miles maximum charge state. At 50% SOC it reads 177 miles, etc. Never trust it. It does not learn at all from what I can tell. ie - 20 miles indicated is not based on current driving efficiency.
Some people are going to be disappointed with the EPA range claim. You will have to drive slower than 75 mph to get over 300 miles out of the car out west. It does have more range than any SUV style EV, but do not plan based on 351 miles. It does not have 100 mile of extra freeway range over it's competition.
Is it really more range than the early Raven Long Range model? That I cannot tell you.
Sidebar - IMO the seat is a "Good 2h" seat. Not a "Great 4h" seat.
Spotify locked up after I left the urban area, but still with 5 bars of LTE. Bug or bandwidth? I don't know.
Since AM isn't available, always keep a Music USB handy when travelling cross country.
Conditions:
50-60°F, I did not need the heater or AC. I had preheated the car and charged it to 100% or 352 mi indicated.
It is 4 miles to the freeway. I drove until ~56% SOC, then turned around without stopping and took the same route to eliminate wind factor. Wind was very light.
Used the Interstate 15 from Corona to almost Baker, California. Terrain involves a climb of about 3600 feet, but it occurs both ways.
Used TACC and Autosteering. Normal driving mode. 45 psi cold, 20" wheels. ~270lb of total cargo. Hitch was mounted, nothing on it.
Car/tires had ~250 miles on it.
Freeway driving was set at 75 mph, but had to slow to 70 mph at times, and had to pass at 85 mph a couple times. Pretty much like I drive in a 70 mph zone when I am not in hurry.
SOC start 100%, SOC end 14%, consumed 78.3kWh. Miles driven (odometer) 229.3mi 3h14m 342Wh/mi = 266.6 miles drop dead range @ 75 mph. Battery holds 91 kWh.
Review - The Range estimator is basically a voltmeter with a table corrected to 100% = 354 miles maximum charge state. At 50% SOC it reads 177 miles, etc. Never trust it. It does not learn at all from what I can tell. ie - 20 miles indicated is not based on current driving efficiency.
Some people are going to be disappointed with the EPA range claim. You will have to drive slower than 75 mph to get over 300 miles out of the car out west. It does have more range than any SUV style EV, but do not plan based on 351 miles. It does not have 100 mile of extra freeway range over it's competition.
Is it really more range than the early Raven Long Range model? That I cannot tell you.
Sidebar - IMO the seat is a "Good 2h" seat. Not a "Great 4h" seat.
Spotify locked up after I left the urban area, but still with 5 bars of LTE. Bug or bandwidth? I don't know.
Since AM isn't available, always keep a Music USB handy when travelling cross country.
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And why is this a new piece of information?. The EPA range is NOT at 75 mph. It is a steady state 65mph with a mix of urban driving mix on good weather conditions. I am guessing, you will get to 300+ miles on a nice 75F weather with light to no wind and not much elevation changes at 65 mph.
MXLRplus
Active Member
Sorry I missed this. My other EV hits 90% of EPA listed range under the same conditions.
Not saying good or bad. I'm saying what I found as a neutral observer.
266 miles is not bad. Further than any other brand.
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OK, I am new to the forum, we recently took delivery of a Model X long range, and I am loving it. We drove McKenzie pass, Oregon yesterday to the top and back down. It goes from 1500 feet to 5500 feet elevation in less than 20 miles. I loved the way it went up a steep grade at any speed I wanted, it cornered very well. No reduction in performance at elevation. I had 195 miles of range left when I got to the Dee observatory on top. On the way down, I was amazed that my range was going up, drove 20 miles down, and ended up with 202 miles of range at the bottom, very nice. I have had good experiences at superchargers and home charging. I am reading lots and learning lots.
We had wanted to buy an S but after driving both, we wanted a bigger interior, and to be up a little higher. The windshield in the X sold us. Now I hope I don't encounter a rock off a gravel truck any time soon. That view through the old-growth fir trees was amazing!
We had wanted to buy an S but after driving both, we wanted a bigger interior, and to be up a little higher. The windshield in the X sold us. Now I hope I don't encounter a rock off a gravel truck any time soon. That view through the old-growth fir trees was amazing!
FirstInTown
Member
When people ask what that costs to replace, I tell them $100. They look in disbelief and I then tell that is my insurance deductible for glass.
I picked up our MX LR yesterday, black with black interior, 7 seat configuration and 22" wheels (my wife liked the look better).
We came to this from a 2017 Audi Q7 where the third row was used regularly, for reference.
In terms of power, there's no contest -- it's phenomenally fast, and I don't know any reason why I'd ever go for a Plaid model.
In terms of the interior cabin, quality is 'okay'. The ergonomics are decent, the screens seem nice enough. The yoke is gimmicky, the turn signals and horn are downright unsafe. The quality of the interior materials is again, okay. I find the steering wheel scroll wheels to be poor, the 'left and right' for media controls requires a lot of precision and often misreads my intention. The HVAC system is annoying to adjust while driving (often times I feel my face too cold and I'll want to move vent locations), and that would be far better with manual operation. Similarly the side view mirrors have the same issue. The stereo has a lot of speakers but seems poorer in quality than I had in my Audi by a good margin.
Ride quality is okay, and I've tried multiple modes on the suspension. Handling is mediocre at best, though I do recognize that the car is a 5000lb beast. I have owned a lot of German cars and on that front Tesla requires a lot of work.
I like the Falcon wing doors, they too are a bit gimmicky but they have some value in ingress/egress for sure. Storage space too, phenomenal. Third row seating is about on par (maybe a bit better) than my Q7, but the combination of storage *with* the third row is the real winner.
That's really the reason I got the car though -- the third row, plus the storage, plus the fact it's an EV really makes it a standout in its place. I think in 3-5 years though, this market will have more competition and I hope to see either an EV X7 or Q7 from BMW or Audi, or an electric version of the Genesis GV80.
I am happy with the car overall, but I don't have blinders on to the faults and flaws. If I'm paying 6 figures for a car and it doesn't come with even the 14-50 adaptor in my mobile charger, that is something wrong. It doesn't have retractable shades for the rear seats, whereas my 6 year old Audi did. There's a lot missing at this price point and while many can claim it to be in the name of 'simplicity', I see it more in the eyes of a company who has never made a car before and misses these creature comforts. The deciding factor for the car was that my price was about $35k less than going rate, so if something else pops up that is competitive -- I can sell this without really losing a dime. And that's a risk I'm good to take, especially not paying the price of gas there is
We came to this from a 2017 Audi Q7 where the third row was used regularly, for reference.
In terms of power, there's no contest -- it's phenomenally fast, and I don't know any reason why I'd ever go for a Plaid model.
In terms of the interior cabin, quality is 'okay'. The ergonomics are decent, the screens seem nice enough. The yoke is gimmicky, the turn signals and horn are downright unsafe. The quality of the interior materials is again, okay. I find the steering wheel scroll wheels to be poor, the 'left and right' for media controls requires a lot of precision and often misreads my intention. The HVAC system is annoying to adjust while driving (often times I feel my face too cold and I'll want to move vent locations), and that would be far better with manual operation. Similarly the side view mirrors have the same issue. The stereo has a lot of speakers but seems poorer in quality than I had in my Audi by a good margin.
Ride quality is okay, and I've tried multiple modes on the suspension. Handling is mediocre at best, though I do recognize that the car is a 5000lb beast. I have owned a lot of German cars and on that front Tesla requires a lot of work.
I like the Falcon wing doors, they too are a bit gimmicky but they have some value in ingress/egress for sure. Storage space too, phenomenal. Third row seating is about on par (maybe a bit better) than my Q7, but the combination of storage *with* the third row is the real winner.
That's really the reason I got the car though -- the third row, plus the storage, plus the fact it's an EV really makes it a standout in its place. I think in 3-5 years though, this market will have more competition and I hope to see either an EV X7 or Q7 from BMW or Audi, or an electric version of the Genesis GV80.
I am happy with the car overall, but I don't have blinders on to the faults and flaws. If I'm paying 6 figures for a car and it doesn't come with even the 14-50 adaptor in my mobile charger, that is something wrong. It doesn't have retractable shades for the rear seats, whereas my 6 year old Audi did. There's a lot missing at this price point and while many can claim it to be in the name of 'simplicity', I see it more in the eyes of a company who has never made a car before and misses these creature comforts. The deciding factor for the car was that my price was about $35k less than going rate, so if something else pops up that is competitive -- I can sell this without really losing a dime. And that's a risk I'm good to take, especially not paying the price of gas there is
Sure, to the best of my ability -- there isn't a lot of roll in the MX, so on that front it's quite planted, but I recognize that it is a 5k lb car so its "tossability" is far lower than I may have thought. My 2017 Q7 was only a few hundred pounds off of the MX's weight though, and felt far more agile into corners, around bends, and its steering input felt more connected to the driver. Even the dead pedal communicated a lot of information about the chassis and road into your feet which, is really super. The MX feels numb by comparison, and by a good margin.
Again, I have been spoiled by performance cars like the Audi and BMWs I have owned before, and since this is a family hauler for the most part, I don't mind those little nitpicks. However, if BMW and Audi get their act together on building an EV based family hauler like this; without compromised designs that borrow from their gasoline counterparts (the iX looks great, but isn't a 3 row SUV), then I'll strongly consider them going forward.
In the end I think the MX is a good all around vehicle, a great EV but a middling 'car'. A lot has been done to mimic the whims of Elon himself -- removing stalks for blinkers, and a horn 'button' (which people recognized as a bad idea in the 80s on the Ford Taurus and other such cars), etc. That, and removing simple things that you'd find in almost every luxury class of car -- rear sunshades, better fit and finish, better materials, and well thought out engagement from a physical buttons perspective -- leaves me hoping that the next few years are full of competition. I will miss the supercharger network for longer distance drives, but my expectation is that if other car manufacturers start competing on a better level than Tesla, those challenges will be a non-issue for the most part.
I'm happy with my purchase but in fairness if I paid the $130k+ that people are paying *now*, I would not have bought the car.
I think your assessment of the BEV market is heinously optimistic, but while I fear you're wrong, I certainly hope you're right.
A cursory examination of the market reveals that legacy auto manufacturers are screwed. They are saddled with massive debt from their ICE business and they don't have access to the minerals they'll need to make batteries at scale. The outlook isn't good for any company except Tesla.
I hate to be an alarmist, but we'll see many car companies going under in the next few years. VW and Hyundai will probably survive. MAYBE Ford, but I don't like their chances.
Tesla is far ahead in software, but WORLDS ahead in manufacturing. Yes, the product is compromised if you're cross-shopping German ICE cars.
If you don't have minerals, you can't build BEVs. Who has minerals? Tesla and virtually nobody else. Jim Farley and Mary Barra have all these lofty plans, but, factually, they don't have the minerals.
Got it. We have a 2019 X and I enjoy it for long road trips as I think it strikes the right comfort/handling balance, but it is definitely not a sporty car. I have noted that at higher speeds the momentum can be felt. It's all about frame of reference. It will be interesting to see how the Rivian SUV handles. I know that they have that cool suspension but 7000# is still a lot of weight to carry around.
For tossability, I miss the 3. That car was a hoot in the twisties
Seriously hope reality proves my assessment egregiously pessimistic.IOW Jim and Mary have rocks in their heads?
I think you underestimate the reach and manufacturing capability of the traditional automakers. Panasonic and LG are the ones to partner with for battery technology, and while Tesla has an early benefit, the scale of BMW, Audi, Mercedes, and anybody else dwarfs the possibilities of Tesla long term. They sell more cars, and are going to have bigger contracts.
Ultimately yes, the natural resources are certainly a point to think about, but the scale of the contracts are what will really make things change.
That, and while Elon is busy marketing things that have yet to happen -- Cybertruck, Full Self Driving, etc, as well as getting looked at by several government agencies -- the rest of the automakers are hard at work building what they think is the next best thing.
Like I said, I'm happy with the car I bought, but I am not a cultist when it comes to Tesla. I'm realistic that other companies will compete, and I'm glad they are. And that benefits everybody, though long term -- probably not Tesla.
Tesla is on course to produce more vehicles than BMW by 2023, and with much higher margins. Legacy car makers have billions of $ in basically stranded assets. Long term I would worry more about legacy carmakers than Tesla. Not that Tesla can't screw up and fail, but the scale difference is about to go away quickly. I don't think that it is a valid argument anymore.
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