Thanks for the assurance, the X will be my first six-figure car so I don't want to be disappointed
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Thanks for the assurance, the X will be my first six-figure car so I don't want to be disappointed
I don't think you will.
I'm already getting in my Model S and wondering why the doors don't auto-close for me.
I'm pleading with my wife regularly to take the Model X instead so that I can use the auto-pilot.
My kids still fight over who plugs the cars in when we get home.
I can fit 3 full beehives (sans bees) into the Model S (and haven't done the capacity test with the Model X yet).
And if that's not enough, just read Matthew Inman's cartoon again:
What it's like to own a Tesla Model S - A cartoonist's review of his magical space car - The Oatmeal
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X Fan
Active Member
I now have a better sense of the e-kool aid ( after the loyalists chimed in reported stats changed )....out of the next 50 folks surveying, 20 reported no problems.
My delivery is next month.....glad I’m not at the end of anquarter recipient & hoping for the best not to get a “flawed” product.
btw: I own stock too so not part of the short, meh crowd.
My delivery is next month.....glad I’m not at the end of anquarter recipient & hoping for the best not to get a “flawed” product.
btw: I own stock too so not part of the short, meh crowd.
pvogel
Member
Yep. Like the famous prediction that Dewey would beat Truman based on a telephone survey at a time when only the wealthiest households in America had telephones! It's a self-selected sample set. For the data to be truly useful you would need a random sampling of everyone who has received their Model X.
Also, to whomever said that 94% fail, it's actually better than that based on the latest results and, even though I mentioned two very small issues (touchscreen non-responsive issues and road/wind noise, I consider both so completely minor that the car is, effectively, "flawless" to me. At some point when I have some time I'll take Merlin over to the service center to see if something can be done about the wind noise on the passenger side and I have every confidence that the touchscreen issue will be resolved by a firmware update real soon now.
@pvogel: I was told this morning they have new seals for the driver and passenger front doors that solves the wind noise problem at the triangle windows.
For what it's worth, I didn't take the poll, so you can't count me as among those people who contributed to the outcome. I don't believe in most polls on TMC, as you found out.
For what it's worth, I didn't take the poll, so you can't count me as among those people who contributed to the outcome. I don't believe in most polls on TMC, as you found out.
pvogel
Member
On what planet are you living? Certainly that statement alone dissolves any credibility you might have had on this issue. No matter where you are on the political spectrum, it's *quite* clear that journalists can't be bothered to investigate "facts" they are spoon fed, let-alone understand the intricacies of population sampling and statistics!
pvogel
Member
Awesome! Great news! I might bump the priority of visiting the service center. I have some out-of-town time coming up during which I won't mind Merlin having a few spa days
Perhaps our definition of "journalists" is mismatched. Most professional journalists had to take basic statistics in college. That doesn't mean they won't cut corners, but they at least understand the crap they're spewing is indeed crap.
As someone has pointed out, you are accumulating an incomplete subset of data that Tesla already knows--this accomplished nothing beyond feeding the trolls and the shorts. The cogent question is who many of these defects will Tesla work to address--Model S owners will tell you its going to be pretty close to 100%. If you do not believe Tesla is not interested in improving product quality without having to shame them, you should probably cancel your order--I cannot imagine spending this kind of money with a company I do not trust
Bwahahaha....
I am all for Tesla, never really liked cars until I saw a Tesla on the road.
I just don't want to regret my purchase, I have a friend that has to take his range rover weekly for service because of lousy build quality issues.
For me spending $110k+ on a "extra car" is a lot of money since I already have four other cars and don't need a fifth but that doesn't mean I don't want it
Obviously, we all want our X to have minimal or zero build quality issues. I wouldn't want my family stranded somewhere since the doors won't close while I am away.
But who knows, I didn't even get a VIN yet for my 90D, 6 seater, premium package and I am in California. So by the time I get my X most of these issues would be resolved...hopefully?
I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Until I purchased the Model S, I had never spent more than $35,000 on a vehicle. My wife thought I was nuts, giving Tesla $40,000 to hold a spot with no guarantee that I'd see the product or ever see the money again... at the time they had only produced 2,500 Roadsters.
As for "extra car", it'll be far more than that -- if you're anything like me, you'll find it's your primary car and every other one is an "extra car". I have a few classics in addition to S + X, and the classics have been to maybe three shows in two years; they're really getting neglected.
Good luck!
Until I purchased the Model S, I had never spent more than $35,000 on a vehicle. My wife thought I was nuts, giving Tesla $40,000 to hold a spot with no guarantee that I'd see the product or ever see the money again... at the time they had only produced 2,500 Roadsters.
As for "extra car", it'll be far more than that -- if you're anything like me, you'll find it's your primary car and every other one is an "extra car". I have a few classics in addition to S + X, and the classics have been to maybe three shows in two years; they're really getting neglected.
Good luck!
Krugerrand
Meow
Krugerrand
Meow
Right! Prior to the statistical discussion you had excellent poll data. Then those Kool-Aid drinking loyalists decided to mess up that excellent poll data.
X Fan
Active Member
Right! Prior to the statistical discussion you had excellent poll data. Then those Kool-Aid drinking loyalists decided to mess up that excellent poll data.
Clearly you are perceptive.....smh...
I completely understand your concern. My MS was twice what I paid for my prior car and my wife's MX is 3X what she paid for her Jeep. My MS is my daily driver, I do not have time to keep taking it to the shop, and 81K miles later, I can say its never let me down.
I think the thing to recognize is the Telsa-Owner dynamic is different that with other car companies. With other manufacturers/dealers, after 30 years of buying cars, I know I need to make sure everything is near-perfect because their interest in me goes off a cliff once I accept the vehicle. Case in point, I once had an MB dealer tell my wife they could not do anything about the crappy voice quality of the hands-free in her E Series because she was too short (never mind that I am 6' I had the same issues).
With Tesla, the thing is to make peace with is the reality that there might be a few bumps out the door, but also recognize Tesla will go to the wall to make things right. Their long-term attitude is much more important to me than the initial defects. My 2013 MS has probably two dozen (minor) issues and they jumped all over every one.
I think this is why you can reconcile the CR reliability rating with the 97% satisfaction rating--sure stuff breaks, but Tesla handles it.
In terms of long-term improvement in quality, from the Q4 shareholder letter:
No one but Tesla knows. For a rough ballpark estimate, I've seen a rule of thumb that modelxtracker.com is capturing around 5% of the reservations/cars. They have data on 120 deliveries, so if the 5% holds, it would mean around 2400 total delivered to date. Huge amount of uncertainty in that number, though.
Right! Prior to the statistical discussion you had excellent poll data. Then those Kool-Aid drinking loyalists decided to mess up that excellent poll data.
Exactly.
There are plenty of posts here that are along the line of "my car is flawless. well, except for minor issues like panel alignment or unresponsive issues with the touch screen or wind noise, etc....but I will ask about those issues next time I go for service." If it is flawless, you don't ask about the issues later. LOL.
For an owner, the value in the poll is to see if whether the issue you have is common or not.
For a buyer, the value is in checking out specific things before accepting delivery.
For a loyalist, the value is in checking off "no problem" even if you haven't accepted delivery yet or only have minor problems with misaligned panels because it justifies your loyalty.
For a non-loyalist, the value is in "I told you so".
X Fan
Active Member
Darryl
ModelXTracker.com Co-Adm
First I apologize up front as I seem to have a probkem lately with condensing my responses.
I LOVE my MODEL X and every day I drive it I LOVE it even more
It is impossible to judge quality on such a small sample. First up until a couple weeks ago less than 200 production cars had been delivered to the customer. Of that number only a fraction access this forum. Many forum users never post but only read the posts.
Based on the information on ModelXTracker I roughly figure only 10% of the people who made reservation posted the information in ModelXTracker. I would assume the number of Model X owners who post would be roughly the same % as in ModelXTracker. This is one reason we try to get a valid VIN so we can validate to make sure it isn't a bogus entry. Is was sufficient enough information to identify trends and perform some rudimentary analysis but that's it. I would say we should expand it to allow fields to track general quality issues but I am concerned the media would use it for purposes not intended.
I am not sure if you saw it but there was posting last week by a person who pretended to be collecting information and they eluded it was on behalf of Elon Musk. People were starting to respond when I questioned her authentisty and there was no more posts. I also reported the posting.
There are users on the forum who would never post negative information as they fear 1) the information could effect the value of the car, 2) complaining about a SC could effect how they are treated, 3) it could effect the stock price of TLSA and 4) they fear the information would be used by the media.
There are individuals who constantly post on the quality of the car yet have never been in a Tesla.
On the Tesla forum site (not this site) I always post privately and am more careful as to what I post on the Tesla site.
I figure I was in the first 25 production cars off the production line and was one of the first people to get a delivery date. That was either lucky or unlucky depending on how you want to look at it. Did I have problems? Yes , Were the problems major? No, but they prevented delivery or the car and after delivery they prevented me from driving. Do I still have problems? Yes Are the problems major? No. I don't want to rush back to the SC everytime I have a problem but as long as they are minor I keep a list and take it in and get everything fixed at one time.
I started using the autopilot today. I drove to the DMV. Florida doesn't allow you to reserve a license plate in advance and the car has to be registered by the SC before they will allow you to reserve a specific plate. My Tesla SC took three weeks to register my car. So I drove to the DMV to order my customized plates. A couple of months ago I checked and all of the best ones had been taken like Tesla, Model X, My X, My Tesla, etc. but I did find a couple. I have been checkimg the DMV site every few days to make sure they were still available. I made a list in the order of preference.
I ended up with TESLA MX. I also found one I like for the Model 3 and plan on putting it on a utility trailer and then transferring to the Model 3 when my M3 arrives.
So back to flawed or flawless. The problems are all minor at this point. When I was driving to the DMV I still notice the irritating sound of air leaking through/around the seal on front row Windows. I am spoiled by my Jaguar which is very very quite. I have reported this problem twice all ready and the last time they said "it is within specification." Next time I know to ask for a copy of specification. I do have a sound meter which checks sound level in decibels which I will bring with me to the SC. The average luxury car going 60mph normally measures 58-60 decibels My jaguar measured around 50 decibals and even lower in the back seat. I measured the Tesla the first day I got it over three weeks ago before they had to take it back for more repairs and it was measuring 75 decibels at 60 mph. 75 is the same as having a normal home vacuuming machine within 10 feet of you. Whatever they did it is now less than 75 but to me still too loud.
Two other things happened on my trip today. All of a sudden my center monitor froze and was non-responsive even though I could still drive. The map and everything controlled by the touchscreen was effected. I pulled to the side of the road and had to do a system reboot by holding down both of the thumb wheels on the steering wheel. After it rebooted a message about what time I wanted to schedule the upgrade of software appeared. I think this is what caused the system to freeze. Hopefully it won't freeze every time an update comes out.
The next thing was really strange. I was trying out the autopilot. I had used it alway to my designation. I was thinking how amazing it was as it drove very similar to the way I drive. On the way back I was on a four lane street (two lanes in each directions). It had a 45 mph limit. I was in the left lane and there was a car about 4-5 lengths in front of me. I had been on this road for about 5 minutes There was a car in my right lane which was slowing to make a right turn. All of a sudden my car pulled to the right like it was following the car which was going to turn right and if I hadn't aggressive steered back in my lane I am sure I would have hit the car. The pavement lines were normal and I did not see anything abnormal. I went from probably being over confident with the autopilot/auto-steering to a making sure I am paying complete attention
I live on the south end of Merritt Island. The north end of the Island is the Merritt Island National Wildlife Refuge along with the Kenndedy Space Center. MThe south ten miles of the island is all residential and varies in width with most of it being one to two lots deep with the lots being 500-1000 deep each. There is only one road (SR-3) running north to south through the majority of the island and it is only one lane in each direction with no shoulder. The speed limit on this road constantly varies between 30-45 mph. The first 2 miles after coming onto the island across the south end bridge and driving north on SR-3 is 30 mph. The county police frequently give tickets on this part of the road. Knowing they are real strick on speeding on the island I have my car set to no more than 3 miles above the limit. Today I came across the south bridge and started north on SR-3. The car is going about 33 mph and before we get 1000 feet the car speeds up to over 40 mph in a 30 mph zone. I know the car uses GPS coordinates and the front camera reads the speed limit signs. I know the way it is now if I were to continue to use autopilot on this road it wouldn't be long before I have a ticket. Does anyone know if there is a way of setting the speed for a section of road to a specific mph.
I LOVE my MODEL X and every day I drive it I LOVE it even more
It is impossible to judge quality on such a small sample. First up until a couple weeks ago less than 200 production cars had been delivered to the customer. Of that number only a fraction access this forum. Many forum users never post but only read the posts.
Based on the information on ModelXTracker I roughly figure only 10% of the people who made reservation posted the information in ModelXTracker. I would assume the number of Model X owners who post would be roughly the same % as in ModelXTracker. This is one reason we try to get a valid VIN so we can validate to make sure it isn't a bogus entry. Is was sufficient enough information to identify trends and perform some rudimentary analysis but that's it. I would say we should expand it to allow fields to track general quality issues but I am concerned the media would use it for purposes not intended.
I am not sure if you saw it but there was posting last week by a person who pretended to be collecting information and they eluded it was on behalf of Elon Musk. People were starting to respond when I questioned her authentisty and there was no more posts. I also reported the posting.
There are users on the forum who would never post negative information as they fear 1) the information could effect the value of the car, 2) complaining about a SC could effect how they are treated, 3) it could effect the stock price of TLSA and 4) they fear the information would be used by the media.
There are individuals who constantly post on the quality of the car yet have never been in a Tesla.
On the Tesla forum site (not this site) I always post privately and am more careful as to what I post on the Tesla site.
I figure I was in the first 25 production cars off the production line and was one of the first people to get a delivery date. That was either lucky or unlucky depending on how you want to look at it. Did I have problems? Yes , Were the problems major? No, but they prevented delivery or the car and after delivery they prevented me from driving. Do I still have problems? Yes Are the problems major? No. I don't want to rush back to the SC everytime I have a problem but as long as they are minor I keep a list and take it in and get everything fixed at one time.
I started using the autopilot today. I drove to the DMV. Florida doesn't allow you to reserve a license plate in advance and the car has to be registered by the SC before they will allow you to reserve a specific plate. My Tesla SC took three weeks to register my car. So I drove to the DMV to order my customized plates. A couple of months ago I checked and all of the best ones had been taken like Tesla, Model X, My X, My Tesla, etc. but I did find a couple. I have been checkimg the DMV site every few days to make sure they were still available. I made a list in the order of preference.
I ended up with TESLA MX. I also found one I like for the Model 3 and plan on putting it on a utility trailer and then transferring to the Model 3 when my M3 arrives.
So back to flawed or flawless. The problems are all minor at this point. When I was driving to the DMV I still notice the irritating sound of air leaking through/around the seal on front row Windows. I am spoiled by my Jaguar which is very very quite. I have reported this problem twice all ready and the last time they said "it is within specification." Next time I know to ask for a copy of specification. I do have a sound meter which checks sound level in decibels which I will bring with me to the SC. The average luxury car going 60mph normally measures 58-60 decibels My jaguar measured around 50 decibals and even lower in the back seat. I measured the Tesla the first day I got it over three weeks ago before they had to take it back for more repairs and it was measuring 75 decibels at 60 mph. 75 is the same as having a normal home vacuuming machine within 10 feet of you. Whatever they did it is now less than 75 but to me still too loud.
Two other things happened on my trip today. All of a sudden my center monitor froze and was non-responsive even though I could still drive. The map and everything controlled by the touchscreen was effected. I pulled to the side of the road and had to do a system reboot by holding down both of the thumb wheels on the steering wheel. After it rebooted a message about what time I wanted to schedule the upgrade of software appeared. I think this is what caused the system to freeze. Hopefully it won't freeze every time an update comes out.
The next thing was really strange. I was trying out the autopilot. I had used it alway to my designation. I was thinking how amazing it was as it drove very similar to the way I drive. On the way back I was on a four lane street (two lanes in each directions). It had a 45 mph limit. I was in the left lane and there was a car about 4-5 lengths in front of me. I had been on this road for about 5 minutes There was a car in my right lane which was slowing to make a right turn. All of a sudden my car pulled to the right like it was following the car which was going to turn right and if I hadn't aggressive steered back in my lane I am sure I would have hit the car. The pavement lines were normal and I did not see anything abnormal. I went from probably being over confident with the autopilot/auto-steering to a making sure I am paying complete attention
I live on the south end of Merritt Island. The north end of the Island is the Merritt Island National Wildlife Refuge along with the Kenndedy Space Center. MThe south ten miles of the island is all residential and varies in width with most of it being one to two lots deep with the lots being 500-1000 deep each. There is only one road (SR-3) running north to south through the majority of the island and it is only one lane in each direction with no shoulder. The speed limit on this road constantly varies between 30-45 mph. The first 2 miles after coming onto the island across the south end bridge and driving north on SR-3 is 30 mph. The county police frequently give tickets on this part of the road. Knowing they are real strick on speeding on the island I have my car set to no more than 3 miles above the limit. Today I came across the south bridge and started north on SR-3. The car is going about 33 mph and before we get 1000 feet the car speeds up to over 40 mph in a 30 mph zone. I know the car uses GPS coordinates and the front camera reads the speed limit signs. I know the way it is now if I were to continue to use autopilot on this road it wouldn't be long before I have a ticket. Does anyone know if there is a way of setting the speed for a section of road to a specific mph.
