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Model X has single 72A charger

ohmman

Upright Member
Global Moderator
Feb 13, 2014
10,797
20,360
North Bay, CA
Today, I received information from a Tesla source that there will be a single charger offered on the X, and that it will be a 60A charger instead of 40A. I was told that this was in part due to the fact that getting a charger in the back of the vehicle was difficult due to the 3rd row seating. I'm assuming it is also a nice compromise between 40A and 80A.

Just a rumor, but I have reason to believe this is valid information.
 

NigelM

Recovering Member
Apr 3, 2011
13,394
562
Northern Virginia
On-board chargers are rated in kW not amps. The Model S charger is 10kW and can accept a current up to 40A; 20kW capable twin chargers double the capacity I.e. Can handle up to 80A at the correct voltage and frequency. While it's quite possible that Tesla has come up with a single charger that has increased capacity above the current 10kW spec, it would also be very unusual for anyone at Tesla to refer to them by amps and not kW.
 

ohmman

Upright Member
Global Moderator
Feb 13, 2014
10,797
20,360
North Bay, CA
On-board chargers are rated in kW not amps. The Model S charger is 10kW and can accept a current up to 40A; 20kW capable twin chargers double the capacity I.e. Can handle up to 80A at the correct voltage and frequency. While it's quite possible that Tesla has come up with a single charger that has increased capacity above the current 10kW spec, it would also be very unusual for anyone at Tesla to refer to them by amps and not kW.

This is a fair point. In the defense of the source, he was discussing it in terms of my HPWC, which I'd mentioned I used at 80A. And I can guarantee it was someone at Tesla.. not sure if you're implying otherwise but I'm not interested in starting an unfounded rumor.. :smile:
 

NigelM

Recovering Member
Apr 3, 2011
13,394
562
Northern Virginia
This is a fair point. In the defense of the source, he was discussing it in terms of my HPWC, which I'd mentioned I used at 80A. And I can guarantee it was someone at Tesla.. not sure if you're implying otherwise but I'm not interested in starting an unfounded rumor.. :smile:

I take your word for it. I talked last week to a group of 3 Tesla sales guys I know, they told me stuff has been kept top secret and they literally had nothing to share even if they wanted to; there are, of course, internal rumors here and there but funnily enough they did indicate that the most interesting rumors were to be found on TMC.

Bearing in mind an increased battery size, slower charging (vs MS spec twin chargers) on all those destination HPWCs doesn't sound too attractive. Perhaps I'm an exception but I really like the relatively fast charge I can get via my HPWC on a 100A circuit in my own garage.
 

Paul Carter

Active Member
Apr 27, 2013
1,735
510
Canada
Today, I received information from a Tesla source that there will be a single charger offered on the X, and that it will be a 60A charger instead of 40A. I was told that this was in part due to the fact that getting a charger in the back of the vehicle was difficult due to the 3rd row seating. I'm assuming it is also a nice compromise between 40A and 80A.

Just a rumor, but I have reason to believe this is valid information.
Its not going to be a surprise for sure. I believe several people have stated here before not to buy the HPWC in preparation for the Model X as it may be different.
 

SW2Fiddler

We Are Cognitive Dissidents
Mar 19, 2014
2,362
3,272
Houston TX
Why would I want to compromise from 80 amps? There is nothing that states I have to charge at that high a current, but when needed, I want the fastest charge possible.

Indeed.
I was envisioning a next-gen single charger for the X and S would be 20kW capable and possibly 22. To really dial the future-proofing to 11, LOL
 

ratsbew

Active Member
Mar 3, 2012
1,293
1,044
O'Fallon, IL
Assuming that the new charger is 15kW, that would mean 6 hours to charge a 90kWh battery from 0-100% or 7 hours if we get the speculated 110kWh battery. That's should still cover 100% of daily usage scenarios. The biggest negative that I can see is slow destination charging. Assuming that Model X has a higher power consumption per mile, then the slower charge rate is compounded by less efficiency to reduce the miles per hour of charge that can be attained.
 

AnxietyRanger

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
9,408
7,978
EU
I have no idea if this is accurate. I guess most of us would hope it is not, if revised chargers really would only reach 75% of current performance. But our (or even Tesla's) wishes may not always be the deciding factor if technical realities dictate otherwise.

I guess the only notion I can offer is that few of the anonymous or otherwise sources (or alleged sources) on TMC have referred to Tesla starting Model X training. If so, I guess it is at least possible more than select people at Tesla having heard such details.

Anyway, I agree such a decrease in home charging potential seems unlikely and I hope there is some other explanation for this rumor.
 
The performance of the onboard charger need to be upgraded with a growing capacity of the battery.
In my country we have a good reserve for AC-Charging: I can use up to 43kW AC-Power via my standard three-phase-grid at home. We have 63 Ampere on three phases and the Mennekes-charging connector can handle this charging rate.
I hope for an upgrade of the onboard-charger from 32A to 40-50A for three-phases-charging =>no problem to charge a 120-150 kWh-battery overnight.
 
With bigger batteries, the need for faster charging *decreases*.

I've already installed a 16A 230V (3.6 kW) socket in my garage for the Model X, because I really don't need more than that. The battery easily covers a week worth of driving, and if I return from a long trip with an empty battery, 8 hours of charging replenishes more than enough range for the following day.

On the other hand, if I had a Leaf or something similar, I would find myself in situations where I would return home from a trip in the middle of the day with close to zero range, and then need 100 km a couple of hours later in the evening. Then I'd need ~10 kW charging, so that I could make that evening trip. (Without using a rapid charger.) The Model X covers that use case with no additional charging.

I think the rumor could be accurate, though. I've been suspecting the charger could be getting an upgrade, after the dual charger stopped being available in the design studio. It's apparent the dual charger isn't something Tesla wants to sell, so they are likely to replace it with something better.
 
This would actually make sense as photos have been taken of a Gen2 charger which is used by Tesla in the latest supercharger systems. This has a 45A battery output vs 30A. However that is only 48A input from 3ph. Maybe 60A over 1ph?

attachment.php?attachmentid=85960&d=1435797960.jpg


Would not be surprised if Tesla do this for Model S, too.
 

AnxietyRanger

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
9,408
7,978
EU
The performance of the onboard charger need to be upgraded with a growing capacity of the battery.
In my country we have a good reserve for AC-Charging: I can use up to 43kW AC-Power via my standard three-phase-grid at home. We have 63 Ampere on three phases and the Mennekes-charging connector can handle this charging rate.
I hope for an upgrade of the onboard-charger from 32A to 40-50A for three-phases-charging =>no problem to charge a 120-150 kWh-battery overnight.

I am no electrician so a genuine question: Could an upgraded "60A" (to use the term of the thread) single charger be more likely to allow better three-phase Mennekes charging than the current dual setup? Or could either do it but just currently aren't specced up to it for other reasons?

Because that would certainly help in Europe.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the rumor could be accurate, though. I've been suspecting the charger could be getting an upgrade, after the dual charger stopped being available in the design studio. It's apparent the dual charger isn't something Tesla wants to sell, so they are likely to replace it with something better.

Good point. Thank you.

- - - Updated - - -

This would actually make sense as photos have been taken of a Gen2 charger which is used by Tesla in the latest supercharger systems. This has a 45A battery output vs 30A. However that is only 48A input from 3ph. Maybe 60A over 1ph?

attachment.php?attachmentid=85960&d=1435797960.jpg


Would not be surprised if Tesla do this for Model S, too.

A good post. And a related-to-thread image too. :) This conversation is washing away many a disappointments.
 
No, it's not unusual. Tesla's website refers to them as 40A and 80A in some places.
Source: Tesla Charging | Tesla Motors

That not a reference to to the chargers but to the maximum incoming amps as part of the calculation. Take a look at the specs, or just about everywhere else and you'll see them correctly as kW. I'm not saying this development is impossible, just that it is an unusual way to refer to it.

- - - Updated - - -

Assuming that the new charger is 15kW, that would mean 6 hours to charge a 90kWh battery from 0-100% or 7 hours if we get the speculated 110kWh battery. That's should still cover 100% of daily usage scenarios. The biggest negative that I can see is slow destination charging.

6 or 7 hours of charging at home is unacceptably long. With two Tesla's in our garage I stagger the charge start times for conservative safety reasons;; it becomes very difficult, if not impossible, to do this if the X is going to take up so much charge time.

Like many other folks I've wired my garaged with 50A 14-50s and a 100A HPWC. It would be crazy if Tesla now changed to something different that can't optimize usage of existing set-ups.
 

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