Model X has single 72A charger

[de704]

Today, I received information from a Tesla source that there will be a single charger offered on the X, and that it will be a 60A charger instead of 40A. I was told that this was in part due to the fact that getting a charger in the back of the vehicle was difficult due to the 3rd row seating. I'm assuming it is also a nice compromise between 40A and 80A.

Just a rumor, but I have reason to believe this is valid information.

I sure hope this isn't true. I've already pre-wired my new house with a 100 amp circuit for a HPWC (for Dual Chargers) and 2 additional 50 amp 14-50 plugs.

Panoramic

Left side before sheet rock

You know for the X and the 3. I also had to double the houses power to 400amp (Two 200amp breaker boxes)

 

[Saghost]

Today, I received information from a Tesla source that there will be a single charger offered on the X, and that it will be a 60A charger instead of 40A. I was told that this was in part due to the fact that getting a charger in the back of the vehicle was difficult due to the 3rd row seating. I'm assuming it is also a nice compromise between 40A and 80A.

Just a rumor, but I have reason to believe this is valid information.

This seems unlikely, for the U.S. Market at least. Here in America, the largest standard outlet is 50A (so 40A continuous), so there is little value in making a bigger standard charger; with the expanding SpC network, I think most owners aren't going to need more - and the ones that do won't be satisfied by 60A and will be willing to pay extra for it.

 

[hill]

Seems very un-Tesla if you ask me. I mean, aren't they all about overcoming these technical hurdles? Also, it doesn't make much sense: it's too much for a NEMA 14-50 and not enough to make the high power connector worth the extra cost.

Water cooled? Just like one of the Calif super chargers? Just thought I'd plant another rumor.
:biggrin:
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[sandpiper]

Today, I received information from a Tesla source that there will be a single charger offered on the X, and that it will be a 60A charger instead of 40A. I was told that this was in part due to the fact that getting a charger in the back of the vehicle was difficult due to the 3rd row seating. I'm assuming it is also a nice compromise between 40A and 80A.

Just a rumor, but I have reason to believe this is valid information.

Maybe it's 60A with an option to add another 60A at the SC? That would make more sense to me. I've had the unfortunate experience of driving in areas without superchargers and I have to say that slow charging while you wait in January is not a whole lot of fun. Anything that would make it slower would be a big negative.

 

[Matteo]

Anything that would make it slower would be a big negative.

I'm not trying to be bearer of bad news but supercharging is likely to be slower too. I hope that is already expected and won't be a disappointment. Model X 90D is likely to have less range than S90D, S85D and S85. I would expect 257 EPA based on Elon's statements in Oslo and Ludicrous Mode conference call. Less range means slower supercharging because of charge percentages need to be higher for same rated miles. That would mean a typical supercharging session from 40 to 180 rated miles will be as follows.

S90D: 29 min 42 sec
S85D: 32 min 30 sec
S85: 33 min 30 sec
X90D: 35 min 18 sec

I think we should expect a 95 kWh pack within a year of MX release. From Elon's statements I got the impression that the higher energy density cells for 95 kWh pack are ready but they are not implementing it with the release because it would increase the price too much. Next year Gigafactory starts production. So expect 95 kWh in late 2016. As the capacity increases, supercharge times will improve.

 

[scaesare]

I hope that this is a single 15KW (aka "60A/240V") charger, with the option for a second one.

That having been said, I have a feeling that the take-up on dual chargers for the Model S has been very low. Discussions/polls here seem to have indicated that... and I think the removal of dual-chargers as a factory option (and instead a service-center installation) might lend credence to that idea as well.

I wonder if the design/packaging challenges with the X were such that, combined with what might be only single-digit-percentage take-up, they decided a single 15KW charger would be sufficient?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

That not a reference to to the chargers but to the maximum incoming amps as part of the calculation. Take a look at the specs, or just about everywhere else and you'll see them correctly as kW. I'm not saying this development is impossible, just that it is an unusual way to refer to it.

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6 or 7 hours of charging at home is unacceptably long. With two Tesla's in our garage I stagger the charge start times for conservative safety reasons;; it becomes very difficult, if not impossible, to do this if the X is going to take up so much charge time.

Like many other folks I've wired my garaged with 50A 14-50s and a 100A HPWC. It would be crazy if Tesla now changed to something different that can't optimize usage of existing set-ups.

Just as a light humor interruption: For once I wouldn't have an issue with this. My current setups allows for charging two EVs at around 30 (thirty) hours for 85 kW. I haven't bothered upgrading since I have had no issues with this rate.

But to be on topic, current setups aside, does anyone know if a "60A" single charger could - in any configuration, even just in theory - be better than the current dual chargers?

 

[TexasEV]

I hope that this is a single 15KW (aka "60A/240V") charger, with the option for a second one.

That having been said, I have a feeling that the take-up on dual chargers for the Model S has been very low. Discussions/polls here seem to have indicated that... and I think the removal of dual-chargers as a factory option (and instead a service-center installation) might lend credence to that idea as well.

I wonder if the design/packaging challenges with the X were such that, combined with what might be only single-digit-percentage take-up, they decided a single 15KW charger would be sufficient?

I think it's a chicken and egg problem. Removing dual chargers as an option when ordering the car pretty much guarantees that uptake will be low. As discussed in another thread, it seems this move was at cross purposes with the push to install more destination charging HPWCs at up to 80A. The casual owner (meaning one who doesn't read TMC obsessively) isn't going to understand he needs to get dual chargers installed at the service center in order to take advantage of the 80A charging station that he finds at his destination. He wouldn't even know that dual chargers are an option, because they don't show as an option when configuring the car online.

 

[FlasherZ]

This would actually make sense as photos have been taken of a Gen2 charger which is used by Tesla in the latest supercharger systems. This has a 45A battery output vs 30A. However that is only 48A input from 3ph. Maybe 60A over 1ph?

Doesn't work that way.

This is the charger currently being installed in Model S cars. This charger is limited to 48A - 16A per phase input in the charger.

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I sure hope this isn't true. I've already pre-wired my new house with a 100 amp circuit for a HPWC (for Dual Chargers) and 2 additional 50 amp 14-50 plugs.
View attachment 89427
Left side before sheet rock

If that's #2/3 NM cable, it's not quite to code. #2 is only good to 95A (NEC 334.62), and NEC 210.19(A)(1)(a) requires that 80A charging needs a 100A conductor because of continuous load.

There have been posts on this forum that an occasional inspector has let it by, usually because they don't work with the continuous load rules on a daily basis and because at inspection time you usually don't have the appliances fully installed, so they don't necessary know the details of what's going there. As a result, you might get it green-tagged for connection, but technically it doesn't comply to install the HPWC on that wiring. I assume rough-in inspection has been completed and you're just waiting for finishing?

EDIT: Was surprised the receptacles were mounted so low but I see it sits on a higher concrete sill.

 

[scaesare]

I think it's a chicken and egg problem. Removing dual chargers as an option when ordering the car pretty much guarantees that uptake will be low.

Well except that's not the case with the Model S, which is what I was extrapolating from. Just as the 40KWh pack was removed as an option due to low uptake, it may be that dual chargers could be as well...

 

[ohmman]

To be clear, my source told me that it would be a single charger, and doubles wouldn't be offered. Again, he mentioned that part of the reason was that with the "magic carpet" third row, there was a lot of rearranging to be done back there.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

To be clear, my source told me that it would be a single charger, and doubles wouldn't be offered. Again, he mentioned that part of the reason was that with the "magic carpet" third row, there was a lot of rearranging to be done back there.

Factory-Standard 20kW Charger For Everyone has been my favorite rumour ever since the removal of Dual from factory config, in light of the aggressive expansion of 80A Destination Charging as well as the low voluntary uptake of duals.

The piece of this that doesn't fit at all is the idea of Model X being limited at "60A" instead of double the old standard. It doesn't go to eleven. That's the un-Tesla bit IMHO.

 

[NigelM]

To be clear, my source told me that it would be a single charger, and doubles wouldn't be offered. Again, he mentioned that part of the reason was that with the "magic carpet" third row, there was a lot of rearranging to be done back there.

Wait, I thought the magic carpet would refer to the second row as that is where the seats are supposed to be something special (I assume in all sorts of configurations).

 

[Saxena]

My understanding was that the supercharger bypasses the onboard chargers and go directly into the battery?? If this is the case, then the 60amp wouldn't be an issue in regards to supercharging. Please feel free to correct me...

 

[NigelM]

The piece of this that doesn't fit at all is the idea of Model X being limited at "60A" instead of double the old standard. It doesn't go to eleven. That's the un-Tesla bit IMHO.

Agree. This would be the first time that Tesla knowingly and deliberately reduced charging speeds; that's a big generalization on my part, but you get the message.

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My understanding was that the supercharger bypasses the onboard chargers and go directly into the battery?? If this is the case, then the 60amp wouldn't be an issue in regards to supercharging. Please feel free to correct me...

That's correct. The real restriction would be on existing 80A HPWCs....(Like the one on my garage wall)

 

[AnOutsider]

I hope that this is a single 15KW (aka "60A/240V") charger, with the option for a second one.

That having been said, I have a feeling that the take-up on dual chargers for the Model S has been very low. Discussions/polls here seem to have indicated that... and I think the removal of dual-chargers as a factory option (and instead a service-center installation) might lend credence to that idea as well.

I wonder if the design/packaging challenges with the X were such that, combined with what might be only single-digit-percentage take-up, they decided a single 15KW charger would be sufficient?

Seems a reasonable conclusion. I'd still find it very disappointing. I'm one of the ones that has dual chargers and loves it. I don't care if the car can charge overnight, I'd like my car charged in as short amount of time as possible.

 

[Paul Carter]

Seems a reasonable conclusion. I'd still find it very disappointing. I'm one of the ones that has dual chargers and loves it. I don't care if the car can charge overnight, I'd like my car charged in as short amount of time as possible.

Totally. I also have the dual chargers in my S for the past 6 months. Made a huge difference when out of town. In Seattle and Portland before I had dual chargers it was a chore to have enough to get around town after arrival. Now I don't worry and barely an hour in a mall or at the hotel is enough. And better yet I don't have to use Blink at all.

 

[PoweredByRain]

On-board chargers are rated in kW not amps.

I would say that they are rated in Amps, assuming of course a certain voltage range. As you point out, the charger is limited to 40A. If you give it 40A at 200V, as is most often the case with commercial EVSE installations (208V sagging under load), you'll get 8 kW because 200V*40A = 8 kW. You will never in practice get 10 kW unless you can find a 250V source. I've never heard of one, the standard in North America is 208V or 240V.

The Model S charger is 10kW and can accept a current up to 40A

Right. Which just invalidates the point you made. The limit is the current. It is not the total power. If it were a 10 kW charger, then if you hooked it up to a 48A @ 200V source you'd expect to see 9.6 kW, right? No, you'll see 8 kW (200V*40A), because it's limited to 40A.

If you're going to be pedantic, then you have to get it right or someone else more pedantic than you will correct your correction.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

I don't care if the car can charge overnight, I'd like my car charged in as short amount of time as possible.

This also applies (maybe more so) to the car I am waiting to finish so I can charge!

 

[NigelM]

If you're going to be pedantic, then you have to get it right or someone else more pedantic than you will correct your correction.

http://www.teslamotors.com/support/model-s-specifications

:tongue: