Model X mules show signs of a new spoiler?

[sigurdi]

Still, so far I guess the most likely end-result is production Model X will have the charge port in the same place as Model S.

Yes 100% agree.

Still two ports do not need to be a problem if all the cameras and new Nvidia cchip is used, the car know what charge port you are going to use. ;-)
If it is wrong you can always open it manualy from screen or fob.
The new automatic charge ports, open both and closes the opposit when a charger is mounted.

 

[1208]

And not get me started on charging with dubble capasity.
Using two charge ports at the same time, give the posibility of real Super Charging, but introduce a controlling issue.
The good thing is the ports used today can handle current at 350+A, two of them gives 700A and with a battery that can manage this kind of current the charge time from 0-80% will be realy Nice.
Also test cars do not care about batteri life, consumers and Tesla do. ;-)

That's what I thought they should do. Two cables, 1 each going into either side of the car. Recharge in 10mins. Bang.:smile: It should be standard on all new tesla cars.

They should then unveil this feature with a video of a race to recharge Model X vs refuelling and paying for petrol for an ICE car.

 

[AnOutsider]

The right side is better because the driver wouldn't have to walk around the whole vehicle to get to the charging port. :smile: Also, I think it would be easier to use the driver-side mirrors to line up the vehicle to the charging station.

sounds like you're saying that the left side is bettet

 

[1208]

It should be on the right hand side for people in countries that drive on the correct side of the road. And left hand side for people who drive on the wrong side.:biggrin:

 

[NigelM]

Switching the charge port or Supercharging with two ports:

1. Superchargers have a short cable for reasons of voltage drop, ampacity, weight etc.
2. Laws of physics preclude use of an extension cord, apart from the fact it would be ridiculously heavy and darn near impossible to coil up.
3. Many Superchargers have spaces at an angle to the road, with one way traffic; changing usage to pull in forwards means driving your car against the flow of traffic.
4. Take a look at the construction photos in the Supercharger threads. Nobody is going to start digging up roadways and sidewalks all over again to add extra cabling.

If you want to use Superchargers then the charge port needs to be in the exact same place it is on Model S.

Remember you're looking at pictures of mules. IIRC some of the early Model S mules had a charge port in the trunk or laying on the back seat.

- - - Updated - - -

It should be on the right hand side for people in countries that drive on the correct side of the road. And left hand side for people who drive on the wrong side.:biggrin:

Thats fine so long as you don't intend to ever supercharge your British car in continental Europe. ;-)

 

[1208]

I was about to say have the charge port in the middle, then I remember checking Nissan Leafs charge port and thinking I wouldn't buy one because I couldn't fit it in the garage and charge it at the same time as it is at the front in the middle. At the side would be ok. Leafs also have to park facing any charge point as well. Design flaw IMHO. Hopefully the leafs next gen will have charge point on the side.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Switching the charge port or Supercharging with two ports:

1. Superchargers have a short cable for reasons of voltage drop, ampacity, weight etc.
2. Laws of physics preclude use of an extension cord, apart from the fact it would be ridiculously heavy and darn near impossible to coil up.
3. Many Superchargers have spaces at an angle to the road, with one way traffic; changing usage to pull in forwards means driving your car against the flow of traffic.
4. Take a look at the construction photos in the Supercharger threads. Nobody is going to start digging up roadways and sidewalks all over again to add extra cabling.

If you want to use Superchargers then the charge port needs to be in the exact same place it is on Model S.

Good points, thank you for taking the time to list them, and I agree "the same as Model S" is the likely scenario. Still, two charge ports would be welcomed at some chargers - I could have already made use of them with my Model S.

Switching the charge port or Supercharging with two ports:
Remember you're looking at pictures of mules. IIRC some of the early Model S mules had a charge port in the trunk or laying on the back seat.

Thank you for that backstory, NigelM. That is exactly the kind of detail someone following Tesla longer can bring to the table. I welcome it a lot, as it helps put things into perspective. It certainly is possible the Model X mule could have a temporary charging location.

 

[vandacca]

sounds like you're saying that the left side is better

Arghh. Yes, I meant to say "the left side is better". Having it on both sides would be a very nice option, but seeing it on the mule only means it has a 50% chance of making to production, IMHO.

 

[AnOutsider]

not that they dont exist, but i cant remember visiting a supercharger that couldnt work for a car with the port on either side.

though, i'd prefer to simply see it on both sides.

 

[NigelM]

not that they dont exist, but i cant remember visiting a supercharger that couldnt work for a car with the port on either side.

If we ignore the fact that you'd have to park on this he extreme edge of the parking space, cars with a left side charge port couldn't use any of the end spaces and, even in a central spot, would effectively end up blocking 2 spaces for all those existing Model S drivers. I can see the threads already complaining that slots were X-ed.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

If we ignore the fact that you'd have to park on this he extreme edge of the parking space, cars with a left side charge port couldn't use any of the end spaces and, even in a central spot, would effectively end up blocking 2 spaces for all those existing Model S drivers. I can see the threads already complaining that slots were X-ed.

Good points. Would you see any possibility of Tesla lengthening the cables to reach hypothetical back of the car? I know you mentioned electrical limitations, but do you know what the practical limit would be?

 

[NigelM]

Good points. Would you see any possibility of Tesla lengthening the cables to reach hypothetical back of the car? I know you mentioned electrical limitations, but do you know what the practical limit would be?

I'd say the Tesla engineers already answered the question of what the optimal length should be. While I can see some minor convenience factor to having a Chargeport on both sides of the car, it makes no sense whatsoever to migrate any serious distance away from the existing Model S placement.

 

[NigelM]

BTW, it makes sense to utilize the same battery pack for X and S which then means that moving the chargeport would potentially add extra length to the internal cabling, that leads to increasing resistance, increasing temperatures during charging and increasing charge time. Without knowing the details it's impossible to calculate the direct effect, and it may well be minimal in total, nevertheless it's still indicative of the problems behind any theoretical chargeport relocation.

- - - Updated - - -

P.S. @mods, much of this thread is about chargeport location, not spoilers.

 

[Gerasimental]

BTW, it makes sense to utilize the same battery pack for X and S which then means that moving the chargeport would potentially add extra length to the internal cabling, that leads to increasing resistance, increasing temperatures during charging and increasing charge time. Without knowing the details it's impossible to calculate the direct effect, and it may well be minimal in total, nevertheless it's still indicative of the problems behind any theoretical chargeport location.

unless, y'know, the power electrical systems are symmetric about the major axis of the car. Or you could use use thicker cables. This is not really an engineering hurdle, although it may well be a design hurdle.

 

[bonnie]

Given the obvious advantage of reusing parts and platform layout, what design rationale to move the charge port would trump keeping it 'as is'?

 

[vandacca]

Given the obvious advantage of reusing parts and platform layout, what design rationale to move the charge port would trump keeping it 'as is'?

I'm hoping that the design rationale is to add a charge port (to the passenger side) rather than to move it. Then the advantage is obvious - the convenience of choice.

 

[Gerasimental]

Given the obvious advantage of reusing parts and platform layout, what design rationale to move the charge port would trump keeping it 'as is'?

I too thought this was about having charge ports on both sides. This might even have some advantages by making the car more symmetric and reducing the number of different parts.

Could this allow for faster charging in the case that 2 adjacent supercharger stalls are free? Was wondering if two separate charging circuits would allow 2 separate sets of cells to be charged at 120kW each for a total of 240kW. I guess it depends on what currently limits charge rate. I know embarrassingly little about batteries and such electronic systems (oh god, and I sit my final exams, including a paper on power electronics, in 3 months :crying so this may be a stupid suggestion, but could anyone comment on the feasibility of this?

Of course it would have to be possible for the car to charge normally off either port individually. Also, the car would have to allow either one of the chargers to be disconnected if another owner pulls up to the next stall (maybe would only unlock the port if it knows another Tesla is in the immediate vicinity?)

 

[bonnie]

I'm hoping that the design rationale is to add a charge port (to the passenger side) rather than to move it. Then the advantage is obvious - the convenience of choice.

I too thought this was about having charge ports on both sides. This might even have some advantages by making the car more symmetric and reducing the number of different parts.

Could this allow for faster charging in the case that 2 adjacent supercharger stalls are free? Was wondering if two separate charging circuits would allow 2 separate sets of cells to be charged at 120kW each for a total of 240kW. I guess it depends on what currently limits charge rate. I know embarrassingly little about batteries and such electronic systems (oh god, and I sit my final exams, including a paper on power electronics, in 3 months :crying so this may be a stupid suggestion, but could anyone comment on the feasibility of this?

Of course it would have to be possible for the car to charge normally off either port individually. Also, the car would have to allow either one of the chargers to be disconnected if another owner pulls up to the next stall (maybe would only unlock the port if it knows another Tesla is in the immediate vicinity?)

I just haven't run into a situation on my Roadster (or on an ICE for that matter) where I wished I could choose between two different locations. Ymmv. I wonder how much that would add to the total price of the vehicle?

 

[Gerasimental]

I just haven't run into a situation on my Roadster (or on an ICE for that matter) where I wished I could choose between two different locations. Ymmv. I wonder how much that would add to the total price of the vehicle?

No, but you might have wished to be able to charge at a 50%, maybe 100% faster rate? Sorry if it wasn't clear, but I was pondering the possibility of using the two ports simultaneously for improved charging characteristics (ideally speed, but perhaps just less stress on various components). I'm in no position at all to estimate the incremental cost of adding another port but I trust TM would only do so if it the additional cost were easily justifiable by the added utility (which I admit would have to go beyond just being able to chose what side to plug into )

 

[EVSteve]

Perhaps the answer for two ports isn't so much from a supercharger aspect as it is for local j1772 type connections. Many local chargers are very low power, some as low as 3.3kW but with multiple chargers available. Would it be feasible to plug one j1772 into one side and another j1772 into the other side essentially doubling the available power from the limited infrastructure available at the site? Seeing as the Model-S is able to be equipped with dual chargers it would seem easy to implement a setup in which two charging stations could be used simultaneously. The left/right orientation would accommodate this very nicely.