Did he ask about his car having 2.0?nope didnt take any I was more concerned with my friends new car that went catatonic after plugging it in at home HPWC, said 12v low car may not restart, car needs service, reduced speed pull over now etc... they have no idea whats wrong with it yet and said "Car showing so many error codes they will have to talk to engineers in Fremont next week." poor guy only has 714 miles on the clock on a P90DL.... jokingly he asked them if they would swap it for a P100DL
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NathanWolf
Member
This would be a shining example of the instant depreciation you've been worried about, wouldn't it?
I have to say I agree- it seems absolutely nuts that Tesla would come out with their most expensive models ever, push them hard, bump orders to the top of the queue- and then a month later say "oops, sorry, now they are already obsolete!". Especially when the price included a specific $500 increase to AP.
This makes me think AP2.0 is not nearly as close as the rumors indicate, or else there will be ability to retrofit, hopefully offered for a relatively low sum. I guess you could argue that the target audience for a P100L could afford a $10k update immediately after purchase, but I'd have to think that would still annoy them to the point of being unhappy with the brand. (OP, Thoughts?
I would almost wonder, assuming the wiring, harnesses, etc are really in place- that Tesla might offer AP updates for free? Almost like a recall / safety update. This would be great PR, and also help tremendously in their effort to collect better data as quickly as possible.
Or maybe I'm just dreaming- I have an X on order about to come off the line, and if the new 100's don't have new AP hardware, I certainly won't either. I will be pretty disappointed if we see new hardware that I just missed out on by a matter of weeks- but I also understand that's something you just have to deal with when buying a Tesla. It's been the hardest thing for me to overcome in a years-long decision to finally pull the trigger.
ccutrer
Active Member
NathanWolf
Member
I don't think so either, and Tesla claims it was unrelated to new hardware. But it would be kind of like twisting the knife for people who order after the price bump but before new hardware, if new hardware is really coming in the next month or so, wouldn't it? If AP2 is really that close, why not wait til it's here to bump up the price?
Keep in mind that when you pay for AP, you're paying for the software. The hardware is there regardless. The $500 bump in pricing has to do with the feature set and maturity of the AP software (v8.0 and v8.1 coming out real soon).
systemcrashed
Please Reboot
NathanWolf
Member
Good point- you know that, and I know that- but I'm not sure this fine point will comfort someone who just spent $150k on a car which was immediately outdated, you know what I mean? Especially if they noticed the AP price bump when ordering their P100L. I could see Tesla representatives having to echo this very statement to frustrated customers, who just know they spent a lot of money on "Autopilot" and are now being told (maybe) they have to spend even more money to bring it up to date.
Most people don't even realize that "autopilot" is several systems working together, much less make the distinction between hardware and software.
I don't know, I may be grasping at straws, but the more I think about it the harder it is for me to believe that there's an AP hardware refresh coming before the end of the year.
I agree with this. Which is why people shouldn't be making $150k purchasing decisions on the speculation that their car will become outdated. Buy it, because it's the best car out there. Or don't buy it, because it's not worth $150k. Holding off, because something better might be coming soon isn't going to work, since there's always something new that Tesla's working on. It's AP2.0 now, P110D sometime later, or model 3-based roadster after that. If you have the money, chase the fad. If not, then get a S90D or X90D, their value is less affected by the newest tech and you're still getting the safest car in the world. Cars are not financial investments.
Joer293
MODEL X P100DL
Thinking that there will always be better technology tomorrow than what you have available today is risky. Roadster owners saw their dreams die when the shiny new sedan came out. You can't buy a roadster new anymore, or anytime soon, maybe never. Similarly Tesla plans to focus all lead designers on the Model 3. Which can only mean S/X development slows down. If Model 3 manufacturing profit/volume dictates to cut the S/X program, then you can bet Tesla will do just that. I vote, buy the car now, you have no idea if some big oil activist is going to hire lawyers that can get Tesla to shutter it's doors. Look what happened to people waiting for the GM EV2. haha (They did get a vehicle 20 years later called the bolt)
One could reference a misguided EV competitor like Fiskar, where people waited for the next advancement only to find the company folded up. I could make reference to the 900 projects that Google started and dropped. Or a better comparison, 3D TV technology. Once money wasn't there, manufacturers jumped to the next interesting thing (4k UHD) and stopped making 3D video cameras.
One could reference a misguided EV competitor like Fiskar, where people waited for the next advancement only to find the company folded up. I could make reference to the 900 projects that Google started and dropped. Or a better comparison, 3D TV technology. Once money wasn't there, manufacturers jumped to the next interesting thing (4k UHD) and stopped making 3D video cameras.
This makes me think AP2.0 is not nearly as close as the rumors indicate, or else there will be ability to retrofit, hopefully offered for a relatively low sum. I guess you could argue that the target audience for a P100L could afford a $10k update immediately after purchase, but I'd have to think that would still annoy them to the point of being unhappy with the brand. (OP, Thoughts?
About the retrofit - Yes, agree with you – I have an X to be delivered end of this month, but since I am in Europe it was produced end of July, and here they can only upgrade to 100 early 2017 (pack exchange, with the ‘pre-delivery deal’). So I have been following the AP 2.0 rumors very closely.
I do not have any new piece of information here, but from watching the Q&As after Autopilot 1.0 release and seing Elon explain over and over again that the cars are unfortunately not upgradable, that they looked into it but it would be an economical nonsense given the work, that they had to take the whole car apart… He genuinely looked sorry about this, and it was not really possible for them back in the early days of the Model S to put wiring harnesses in cars so they would be upgradable later to a feature that really did not exist at the time, when they where struggling to just get a few cars off the production line.
Now things are very different and I really think that they at least tried to make AP 2.0 retrofit possible on recent cars. It might be difficult in the end, because they had to change plans in the process and the technology is evolving, but the double camera wiring in the X is proof to me that they tried. This makes me more optimistic, and also makes me feel better about it even if I end up with a non upgradable car. Another thing that makes me feel better about it is that AP 1.0 really is great, and it is about to get better.
I don't think the service centers could survive the workload if an affordable upgrade is made available. It will end up being priced to discourage it. This way Tesla looks good - enabling upgrades, but reducing the volume and impact to the SCs. The transactions that remain will be very profitable for the company and help fund SC expansion. Imho, Tesla would rather sell you a new car and add another used car to the market.
My .02,
My .02,
systemcrashed
Please Reboot
This would be true if Tesla did not make the retrofit easy to do. On the other hand, If Tesla had a retrofit plan from the start they may have made a 'plug and play' solution that would both be profitable and quick for SCs to complete. Here's to wishful thinking!
systemcrashed
Please Reboot
Now that I've put my 'real life thinking hat' on, I don't think a retrofit for AP 2.0 will happen. It is my understanding that the hardware that is being developed for AP 2.0 would have needed to have been submitted and approved by DOT as the manufacturing of the Model X began.
But if it is a profitable service it could justify increasing SCs around the country. Upping customer experience and sales. Am I basis.. Yes.
I'm sure my city would see more teslas other than the current number if SC wasn't 3 hours away.
I live in the second biggest city in GA and there are 2-3 teslas... Come on.
Another option I would consider is trading in my new tesla for 2.0 hardware. I would get two tax credits to offset some of the deprecation... But I wonder what is truly better for tesla long term.
They would make another car sale and make money on my trade in. So probably not offering a trade in, but the burn would have some residual effects in customer loyalty.
They would make another car sale and make money on my trade in. So probably not offering a trade in, but the burn would have some residual effects in customer loyalty.
