TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Model X Range

Discussion in 'Model X: Driving Dynamics' started by EVger, Sep 13, 2015.

  1. EVger

    EVger Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    Location:
    Florida
    Reliable estimates and actual experience with MX range in light of battery size, EPA estimates, and factors such as aerodynamics, speed, head winds, outside temperature, load, and elevation change.
     
  2. jhs_7645

    jhs_7645 VIN: #3305

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    451
    Location:
    Camas, WA
    Sentence written, words placed in a particular order, more detailed words and terminology added towards end of sentence.
     
    • Funny x 1
  3. EVger

    EVger Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    Location:
    Florida


    I admire your style! But, while words were placed in a particular order in what I wrote, what I wrote is not a sentence.
     
  4. vandacca

    vandacca Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,961
    Location:
    Hamilton
    In that case, you should be punished. Stay tuned to find out your sentence.
     
  5. EVger

    EVger Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    Location:
    Florida
    vandacca,
    I will stay tuned. I know from experience that no good deed will go unpunished. As the presentence investigation is conducted, I hope that the following facts will be taken into consideration. I am a long-time MX reservation holder and I deserve credit for the punishment inflicted to date. (Tesla seems to adhere to Lewis CarrolI’s suggestion: first the punishment then the trial.) Also, I spend considerable time on this site dealing with these sorts of comments. While not unusual, it is at times cruel.
     
  6. vandacca

    vandacca Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,961
    Location:
    Hamilton
    Sounds like you should get your sentence commuted for time already served. ;-)
     
  7. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,645
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Sorry to go off topic and back to the initial question (or sentence fragment with implied querying intent)...
    I assume that the logic for the Model X will be quite similar to the Model S. So the EPA rating can be reached and quite easily extended. But a heavy foot, temperatures outside the 55-85F range, elevation changes and wind will play a significant role. My expectation would be that wind and heavy foot will have a bigger impact than in the Model S, otherwise it will be similar.
    And for real data - wait until the 6400 post thread "My Model X doesn't get the range Tesla promised" which will start in 3-2-1-...
     
  8. scottf200

    scottf200 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,274
    Location:
    Chicagoland ModelX S603
    Your opening sentence makes no sense. 240 is the number from Tesla. No vehicles have been delievered. Your "in light of" and "factors" remarks are just obvious things talked about in every range discussion.
     
  9. EVger

    EVger Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    Location:
    Florida

    My original post in this thread was intended more as a heading to indicate the type of variables that I was hoping people would discuss here, rather than to contain content itself. Unfortunately, Tesla has created a lot of uncertainty regarding MX range (along with other issues). There are numerous discussions with conflicting “facts” and speculation spread over numerous threads (regarding travel, configuration, and versus the MS) on the TMC site. I created this thread in the hopes of consolidating some of that discussion, especially as we are about to move from predictions to actual experience. I’m sure people will be pleased and displeased with actual results and I would like to hear about that.

    I have seen credible descriptions of MX range between 240-256. See “New range estimate of 250? (9/14),” which now indicates 250 miles for the MX90, apparently regardless of wheel size.

    I would like to start to clarify the specifics and the estimated range numbers that go with them.
     
  10. EVger

    EVger Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    Location:
    Florida
    We now have another TMC thread: “Official EPA range”
    Official EPA range

    That thread is consistent with other sources: See, e.g., “BREAKING: EPA Rates Tesla Model X Range – 90D 257 Miles, P90D 250 Miles”
    BREAKING: EPA Rates Tesla Model X Range - 90D 257 Miles, P90D 250 Miles

    The EPA range indicated for the MX is: 257 for the 90D and 250 for the P90D.
    This compares with 270 for the MS 90D. The validity of the individual numbers and the MX-MS comparison remains to be seen. (I am skeptical. It seems to me that the MX does surprisingly well. The MX 90D only gets 13 miles less EPA range than the MS 90D.)
     
  11. MrBoylan

    MrBoylan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Messages:
    840
    Location:
    New York, NY
    It is encouraging, but the weird thing is that the Model S 90D apparently has the same EPA range as the Model S 85D (270 miles) which doesn't make much sense. Unless the EPA changed how they rate range between when they tested the Model S 85D and the 90D. Or the Model S 90D hasn't officially been tested yet... but the X has, which is also odd.

    But in any case, 257 miles for the 90D Model X is OK with me. I'll squeeze more out of it if I can.
     
  12. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,741
    Location:
    Plano, TX
    Apparently EPA never did any estimate for S90D and so the same numbers for S85D have been carried over.

    So the difference of 13 miles is between S85D and X90D. So not exactly apples to apples.

    At 3.5 miles/kWh the S90D will get an additional 5*3.5 = 17 (approx) miles or 287 EPA range.

    So an apples to apples comparison between S and X 90D is 30 miles difference, in line with what one would expect.
     
  13. EVger

    EVger Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    Location:
    Florida
    EPA range is, of course, just a point of departure to allow some comparison among vehicles. If I weren’t so skeptical, 257 for the MX 90D would be very encouraging. It seems too good to be true. I won’t be surprised if a more valid “estimated range” is closer to 240. I’m happy that mkjayakumar thinks the current estimate is a reasonable expectation. I hope that I am wrong and he is correct. I can also usually squeeze out more efficiency than the EPA number, but the few extra miles of estimated range are important to me.

    I don’t believe that EPA does the testing, the manufacturer (Tesla) does. I have seen a manufacturer submit “EPA” results for a new model without new testing and based on the results for a similar model. Tesla may have estimated the results for the MX 90D based on the MS results adjusted for the differential in MX weight, aerodynamics, battery size and anode composition.
     
  14. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,741
    Location:
    Plano, TX
    All I am saying is that the difference between S and X is 30 miles and not 13 miles for a 90D.

    And that 30 miles difference seems in line with expectations.

    So if you can squeeze 250 miles on a full charge driving an S90D for a typical drive, you can expect to get no more than 220 from an X90D for the same drive and conditions.
     
  15. Craig-Y

    Craig-Y Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2014
    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Texas
    Model X Range and Trip Planning Factors

    I know this thread has been cold for a while now but I think its time to resurrect it! The quote above accurately reflected my initial impression based on Tesla published information but seems to be less accurate based in comments from actual Model X owners. I have been having this discussion with Model X owners on the Model X Owners Group on Facebook:

    "Model X Road Trip - I am waiting on my MX P90D VIN 000229 to arrive but I am trying to plan a road trip to visit family after it comes in. I know the "rated" range is 250 miles but have any of you MX owners taken an extended trip and determined the actual highway/interstate range per charge? My closest family is 700 miles away so it will definitely be a Supercharger tour. Thanks in advance for any feedback and congrats on your awesome new vehicles!"

    The data I am looking for is the following:

    1. Rated range vs. what you are actually getting since most Model X owners I have contacted are averaging around 500Wh/mile in the P90D variant which won't get you 250 miles per charge
    2. Accuracy of the onboard trip planner in the Model X - I know how accurate it is for the Model S so lets get feedback for the Model X
    3. If you are using EVTripPlanner.com, which Model S variant and/or factors seem to be closest to your Model X

    Thanks, in advance for any feedback actual Model X owners can provide!
     
  16. Roamer

    Roamer Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2013
    Messages:
    246
    Location:
    Mesa, Arizona, United States
    i posted some initial numbers here;

    Random Model X sightings - Page 112

    I use a P85D on 21's as my EVtripplanner baseline. That seems to track very well with the P90D L on 20's. My first five hundred miles spooked me then the number started improving. The screen shots I posted include lots of below 30 degree driving. At one point the outside temp was so low I ran both heaters on HI for a while. At 12 degrees and 75 mph it stayed warm but required running the systems at higher than normal temp settings.

    I also just just realized that my numbers include at least twenty test drives involving several Ludicrous power runs each. So the data I posted is pretty worst case.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The onboard trip planner improves with use. It learns how you drive and after a few legs it is very accurate. I use the trip graph on every travel leg and I also use the trip graph when charging. I recommend charging to a 20% buffer on the first few travel legs then dropping to 10% as it improves accuracy. I always depart with a full range charge then try to stay on the bottom of the battery as much as possible at each enroute stop. It is wasted time to charge beyond a safe margin to make the next stop. If the wheels are not turning the car should be charging.
     
  17. aesculus

    aesculus Still Trying to Figure this All Out

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,974
    Location:
    Northern California
    This was great information and useful to my decision on the car. Thank you.
     
  18. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,399
    Location:
    San Diego
    Yeah I found the trip graph to be fairly accurate in the Model X. I would adjust my speed when driving to arrive with like 2-3% battery remaining.
     
  19. ptsagcy

    ptsagcy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2013
    Messages:
    446
    Location:
    NJ
    Thanks Roamer - excellent info - very useful.
     
  20. Gzrgmr

    Gzrgmr Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Roamer, on your trip from Nephi to Beaver, you show 100 miles at 457 Wh/mi. Was that a fairly constant 75 mph or a lower average speed. Just trying to get a feel for the energy usage at different speeds. Thanks.
     

Share This Page