Model X Range

[Roamer]

Roamer, on your trip from Nephi to Beaver, you show 100 miles at 457 Wh/mi. Was that a fairly constant 75 mph or a lower average speed. Just trying to get a feel for the energy usage at different speeds. Thanks.

That leg was run at 80 to 82 mph most of the run. Temps from 12 to 22 degrees. For part of the run I double tapped defrost to run everything on HI to clear the fog off all the windows as I drove thru some light fog. When I took the picture I had dropped to 75 mph because I was hitting patches of fog. Not bad but just decided to slow a little bit.
I would say that run was the coldest and fastest of the entire trip. I knew I had plenty of range to make the Beaver SC so had no reason to baby it. Roads were clear and dry. I ate dinner at the Nephi SC so I had a higher charge than normal. Glad I had the higher charge.

As a side note I am usually dealing with 100 to120 degree conditions in AZ. I don't do a great deal of cold weather driving anymore. I swear the Super Chargers really crank out the amps when it is that cold. I was getting higher amps for longer periods than I ever recall getting in Arizona in the summer.

 

[Roamer]

Final trip numbers

These numbers are about as worst case as I could imagine.
New tires
600 miles loaded heavy
Almost all miles run at 70 to 80 mph
1500 miles in below freezing temps
at least twenty test drives each with several Ludicrous full power runs.

Lifetime (15,000 miles) on my P85D is 352 Wh/mi. 90% highway including running the same trip in the summer I just finished in the winter in the new X.

I expect the X to average out a little higher than the P85D on staggered 21's. Based on my runs I anticipate for my Southwest freeway driving it will settle in between 355 and 365. My wife who will be primarily driving city will likely produce better numbers than my lead foot highway runs have produced.

I will let you know in 12 months if I am close on my projection.

Sorry I am not a detailed record keeper. To busy Roaming.

 

[Gzrgmr]

Thanks for the info. This is the best that I have seen on TMC so far. Just got notified for final payment and should be picking up mine soon. We have hills in SC but our weather is more moderate. I just hope that I can come close to your Wh/mi !

 

[Roamer]

Thanks for the info. This is the best that I have seen on TMC so far. Just got notified for final payment and should be picking up mine soon. We have hills in SC but our weather is more moderate. I just hope that I can come close to your Wh/mi !

Think about it before you get excited and make the final payment. I received the email on my Sig Order 594 VIN 8XX on Dec 12th. When I ordered model S cars that meant imminent delivery. So I just wired the funds. 30 days later and I still don't have a delivery date. A week later my lower reservation lower VIN car billed. Hope springs eternal and I wired the funds for that car also. Two weeks later that one delivered. So my experience is that, unlike buying an S, when buying an X getting the please pay email does not mean anything.

 

[Craig-Y]

Roamer! Thanks for the great information and suggestions. I'm really looking forward to getting my X and I will do as you suggest until it learns my habits. Thanks again!

 

[vangogh]

The X is my first Tesla and I'd like to get an idea of range reduction on different driving conditions.....
I've seen on the forum how towing a 5000lb boat can reduce the range significantly...
When I took a 75 mile trip with the same starting and finishing elevation it showed I had used close too 100 "miles" of battery charge.
Conditions - No climate control, internet engaged, Autopilot (w/o ludicrous mode not engaged) at 65 almost the entire time w/o much traffic, light rain

Can you let me know if this is normal for the S (or X if anyone has any information)...and how is % range impacted by the following based on windless flat 65mph driving

Driving Speed + 10mph
Driving Speed - 10mph
Driving Speed - 30mph

Headwind +10mph
Tailwind +10mph

Rain

Elevation Change from start to finish over full range +1000 feet
Elevation Change from start to finish over full range - 1000 feet
Elevation Change from Start to finish over full range +5000 feet
Elevation Change from start to finish over full range - 5000 feet

Ludicrous acceleration

Thanks

 

[scottf200]

Can you let me know if this is normal for the S (or X if anyone has any information)...and how is % range impacted by the following based on windless flat 65mph driving

Driving Speed + 10mph
Driving Speed - 10mph
Driving Speed - 30mph

Model S Efficiency and Range | Tesla Motors

Vehicle speed is by far the largest variable in the range you can achieve. In order to help customers plan and predict this we will share a computer model used to simulate how far a Model S is predicted to travel under the following conditions:

• Constant speed (such as using cruise control)
• Flat ground, no wind
• Climate control OFF or using vent only (no heat or air conditioning)
• 300 lbs of vehicle load (driver plus passenger or cargo)
• Windows up, sunroof closed
• Tires inflated to recommended pressures
• New battery pack (<1 year, <25,000 miles)

 

[vangogh]

Thanks @scottf200...
I'm going to need to continue to watch my range....
Initial indications are noticably lower than the 250 range desired...
could be new tires, cold weather, rain etc....but need more data

 

[CO2CLEAN]

Thanks @scottf200...
I'm going to need to continue to watch my range....
Initial indications are noticably lower than the 250 range desired...
could be new tires, cold weather, rain etc....but need more data

If you would like to get around 250 miles of range, you need to get the energy consumption around 312 Wh/mile. If i'm not mistaken, i have read somewhere else on the forum that the 90 kWh battery has around 78 kWh of usable energy. The rest is buffer to prevent bricking and such.

 

[aesculus]

If you would like to get around 250 miles of range, you need to get the energy consumption around 312 Wh/mile. If i'm not mistaken, i have read somewhere else on the forum that the 90 kWh battery has around 78 kWh of usable energy. The rest is buffer to prevent bricking and such.

I am new to the whole BEV/Tesla thing. I have heard of people needing to get towed in when they ran out of juice. This is the first I heard you can brick the car though.

 

[Vizir]

The battery is under warranty even if user error causes the damage.

 

[pvogel]

I am new to the whole BEV/Tesla thing. I have heard of people needing to get towed in when they ran out of juice. This is the first I heard you can brick the car though.

You can't brick it. That's the point. 90kWh battery is considered 'discharged' to zero and the car stops and makes you get it towed after 78kWH usage, leaving about 15% capacity remaining. Warnings probably start at 25% capacity remaining or earlier depending on how far you are from available charge facilities.

Discharging a Lithium battery to zero does permanent damage and significantly increases the internal resistance of the battery, reducing lifespan, reducing battery capacity prematurely and making the battery run hotter both when it is charged as well as discharged, increasing the power needed to keep the pack cooled.

It's a very vicious cycle once begun. No competently designed EV or hybrid would allow the SOC on the battery to drop below 10% remaining.

Peter+

 

[JRod0802]

Just thought I'd point out this Model S thread that has a lot of useful info. Maybe some crosses over to X:
Putting some numbers on the factors that affect range

Here's a graph that shows range vs speed both with and without the heater on (for the Model S):
View attachment 15408

As you can see from the graph, if traveling at a constant 10mph, you actually spend roughly three times as much energy running the heater as you do driving the car. So that's interesting.

 

[dirkhh]

You can't brick it. That's the point. 90kWh battery is considered 'discharged' to zero and the car stops and makes you get it towed after 78kWH usage, leaving about 15% capacity remaining. Warnings probably start at 25% capacity remaining or earlier depending on how far you are from available charge facilities.

Discharging a Lithium battery to zero does permanent damage and significantly increases the internal resistance of the battery, reducing lifespan, reducing battery capacity prematurely and making the battery run hotter both when it is charged as well as discharged, increasing the power needed to keep the pack cooled.

It's a very vicious cycle once begun. No competently designed EV or hybrid would allow the SOC on the battery to drop below 10% remaining.

It boggles the mind that it is legal to advertise this as a 90kWh battery, though. That's like saying a car has 691hp when it only has 463hp. OK, bad example.
That's like selling one gallon jugs of milk that only allow you to pour out 111oz. A 12-pack of eggs with only 10.4 eggs. A six pack of beer with 5.2 bottles.
As a consumer, if I buy a 90kWh car I think it's a reasonable assumption that the battery (at least when new) can deliver between 89.5 and 90.4 kWh.

 

[CO2CLEAN]

It boggles the mind that it is legal to advertise this as a 90kWh battery, though. That's like saying a car has 691hp when it only has 463hp. OK, bad example.
That's like selling one gallon jugs of milk that only allow you to pour out 111oz. A 12-pack of eggs with only 10.4 eggs. A six pack of beer with 5.2 bottles.
As a consumer, if I buy a 90kWh car I think it's a reasonable assumption that the battery (at least when new) can deliver between 89.5 and 90.4 kWh.

I disagree, since you cannot (without damaging) deplete the battery. That is considered common knowledge. However i do think it would be a good idea for Tesla to communicate more details about the battery and its characteristics. For example: explaining that not all the battery capacity can be used and why this has a positive effect on the battery degradation (in that the degradation is less).

EDIT:
Just like it is bad to drive the gastank emtpy. It is possible, but has a negative effect on the engine (some sludge from the bottom of the tank will get in the engine). There is no protection for gasoline/diesel cars.

That is why we have the range tests from the EPA that will provide some insight in the range that is possible with the battery. Just like with gasoline/diesel cars however these tests are too optimistic.

 

[McRat]

If you take apart an EV battery, and count the cells and record the wH, that's the size. That's how much battery you purchased. Range is what you are actually looking for though.

Think of it like claiming a car has 400HP but when you put it on a chassis dyno, it only shows 350rwhp. Did the mfr lie? No. Actually, the engine is probably more than 400HP in reality per SAE method.

There are advantages of having a larger battery that aren't always obviously. It can handle higher discharge rates, and higher charge rates. It will have more "miles" available before replacement.

Example:

Let's say you want 50kWh usable. You have two packs with the same cells, one has more cells though. One pack is comprised of 75kWh of cells the other 60kWh of cells. The 75kWh battery is capable of 25% more HP output, and 25% more amps at charging (25% faster). The 75kWh will normally last 25% more miles.

If you advertise both cars at 50 kWh, it's not the whole story of what you're buying.

 

[vandacca]

It boggles the mind that it is legal to advertise this as a 90kWh battery, though. That's like saying a car has 691hp when it only has 463hp. OK, bad example.
That's like selling one gallon jugs of milk that only allow you to pour out 111oz. A 12-pack of eggs with only 10.4 eggs. A six pack of beer with 5.2 bottles.
As a consumer, if I buy a 90kWh car I think it's a reasonable assumption that the battery (at least when new) can deliver between 89.5 and 90.4 kWh.

Maybe it's more like buying a 64Gig Phone, where only 52.8Gig are free to the user and the rest is for the OS?

 

[ohmman]

Maybe it's more like buying a 64Gig Phone, where only 52.8Gig are free to the user and the rest is for the OS?

A 50 amp circuit...

 

[aesculus]

Maybe it's more like buying a 64Gig Phone, where only 52.8Gig are free to the user and the rest is for the OS?

I think this is exactly that. But they should state the useful wattage. Aircraft have a similar issue. They carry so much fuel but a lesser amount is actually useful (ie it will get to the engine).

 

[dwebb66]

How many people a) can or b) would care to convert the battery size (max or actual usable) into something that would have meaning in their daily lives?

for example Charging time or Range

Using the 'marketing' number is fine for me.

I think this is exactly that. But they should state the useful wattage.