Model X sales versus other large luxury SUV's

[Saghost]

In the end, the main benefit of Model X comes down to the "no weirdmobiles" company creating the ultimate weirdmobile of them all - and the public relations halo that comes with it. I agree, that effect certainly is real. Model X will definitely go down in history, but if it goes down as a failure, it will be more the DeLorean kind of failure than a Pontiac Aztek.

I'm not saying the falcon wings didn't attempt to address some real issues as well. In the Model X it just pretty much failed to do so (third row access not improved nearly as much as prototype, no folding flat 7-seating due to wings requiring in-seat seatbelts, no real roof-rack solution, probably too limited sensors, not to mention quality issues still).

Child seat access is perhaps the only one they got right, because even access in tight spaces is often offset by trouble accessing the seats in low-ceiling areas. Some of these could be rectified, but would it be worth it...

Wow. Inevitably a failure, huh? That's quite a spin on a car that's already one of the best selling EVs in the country, despite having the highest price tag.

Somehow Tesla managed to make a car that's 30% heavier than my Volt, bigger by more than 10% in every direction, with twice the power and the ability to tow as much as it weighs - an EV first, you'll note - and yet it gets the same EPA ratings my Volt got! Bigger, much faster, more capable, much more comfortable, much safer, and just as efficient? Yeah, that's clearly a total failure.

Have you stopped to think about how long those conventional rear doors you're insisting would be so much better end up? You're in R class or Pacifica territory here - huge doors that you can't open very wide unless you have a huge parking space, like many convertibles have.

I for one am very happy with the set of compromises Tesla chose, and for me an X is a much better car than an S, despite not having children or even regular rear seat passengers. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.

 

[disagree]

Child seat access is perhaps the only one they got right

For some of us, that's one of the biggest things to get right. I have three kids and every single other non Mini-van vehicle that fits us is a giant pain in the ass for loading and unloading in day-to-day circumstances. I'm almost never in low-ceiling areas, so the occasional inconvenience in such a circumstance is wildly overcome by the amazing convenience nearly every other time my 3 knuckleheads get in and out at school, stores, parks, games, lessons, etc. The X is AMAZING for this. As far as I'm concerned 7 seat cars are always going to suck for any family that doesn't have kids who climb over seats to get into the way-back. We've been through several. No matter how whiz-bang single button pushing third-row access is, it sucks. The 6 seat Model X is a diamond.

It's 100k+ electric car designed to compete in the already limited market of 6+ seat mom cars. It's sales were never going to be mind-blowing. And I would bet a fair amount that -- for the most part -- the rich-mom-demographic is lagging in interest in electric vehicles and non-German status cars.

 

[McRat]

For some of us, that's one of the biggest things to get right. I have three kids and every single other non Mini-van vehicle that fits us is a giant pain in the ass for loading and unloading in day-to-day circumstances. I'm almost never in low-ceiling areas, so the occasional inconvenience in such a circumstance is wildly overcome by the amazing convenience nearly every other time my 3 knuckleheads get in and out at school, stores, parks, games, lessons, etc. The X is AMAZING for this. As far as I'm concerned 7 seat cars are always going to suck for any family that doesn't have kids who climb over seats to get into the way-back. We've been through several. No matter how whiz-bang single button pushing third-row access is, it sucks. The 6 seat Model X is a diamond.

It's 100k+ electric car designed to compete in the already limited market of 6+ seat mom cars. It's sales were never going to be mind-blowing. And I would bet a fair amount that -- for the most part -- the rich-mom-demographic is lagging in interest in electric vehicles and non-German status cars.

It's popular to trash mini-vans today, but they are actually effective.

We had mini-vans years ago when kids were small. Built in backseat entertainment, easy to clean, easy childseat install. They might not be fashion cars, but they are highly functional. Our Olds seat 6 (2x3), with removable/folding seats and an aisle.

 

[disagree]

It's popular to trash mini-vans today, but they are actually effective.

We had mini-vans years ago when kids were small. Built in backseat entertainment, easy to clean, easy childseat install. They might not be fashion cars, but they are highly functional. Our Olds seat 6 (2x3), with removable/folding seats and an aisle.

Mini-vans are awesomely practical, no doubt. I meant 7 seat SUVs. My apologies for not making that more explicit.

 

[nikeykid]

top gear article that echos a lot of thoughts in this thread:

Opinion: Tesla needs to stop re-inventing the wheel

personally i love the FWD but my wife hates them. my kids love them tho.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Wow. Inevitably a failure, huh? That's quite a spin on a car that's already one of the best selling EVs in the country, despite having the highest price tag.

Nope. Not inevitably a failure. If Model X continues to push past Model S in sales in a significant manner, it can still turn out to be a success. But if a premium SUV can not beat premium sedan in sales, then we must conclude the premium SUV was a failure, yes. The former is just that much bigger market.

I said if:

Model X will definitely go down in history, but if it goes down as a failure, it will be more the DeLorean kind of failure than a Pontiac Aztek.

And also, if it goes down as a failure, it will be a memorable one. That is Model X's biggest claim to fame, IMO. It may not set the EV market on fire like Model S did, not even the EV SUV market (that will probably be a product from some other company at this rate), but it will be a memorable car.

Somehow Tesla managed to make a car that's 30% heavier than my Volt, bigger by more than 10% in every direction, with twice the power and the ability to tow as much as it weighs - an EV first, you'll note - and yet it gets the same EPA ratings my Volt got! Bigger, much faster, more capable, much more comfortable, much safer, and just as efficient? Yeah, that's clearly a total failure.

Compared to what it could have been sales-wise, release date wise, and price-wise, yes I think it can be a failure. A non-FWD Model X would quite likely been released year(s) earlier, cost much less and probably sold much more. It could still not be a failure if it can sell much more than Model S in the end. But if it keeps selling same or less than Model S, yes, I would consider it a failure. That would be like Porsche Cayenne selling less than Porsche Panamera.

Have you stopped to think about how long those conventional rear doors you're insisting would be so much better end up? You're in R class or Pacifica territory here - huge doors that you can't open very wide unless you have a huge parking space, like many convertibles have.

I am thinking Audi Q7 doors. Model X is pretty much Audi Q7 sized. Nothing special, there are tons of such SUVs on the market. Volvo XC90 and so forth. If they had just basically made a taller Model S, they would have had it out sooner, cheaper and more acceptable to the market.

I for one am very happy with the set of compromises Tesla chose, and for me an X is a much better car than an S, despite not having children or even regular rear seat passengers. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.

I too am pretty sure you are not alone. I am with you personally. Though I must say I am not happy about all the compromises, e.g. the non-folding action in the 6/7 seater.

However, I am thinking there is much more people who would find regular doors better and the car would sell more.

 

[Electroman]

I read that Top Gear article and I feel a little dirty agreeing with it..

 

[WarpedOne]

Don't worry, there will be Model Y and it will also come with FWD.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

For some of us, that's one of the biggest things to get right. I have three kids and every single other non Mini-van vehicle that fits us is a giant pain in the ass for loading and unloading in day-to-day circumstances. I'm almost never in low-ceiling areas, so the occasional inconvenience in such a circumstance is wildly overcome by the amazing convenience nearly every other time my 3 knuckleheads get in and out at school, stores, parks, games, lessons, etc. The X is AMAZING for this. As far as I'm concerned 7 seat cars are always going to suck for any family that doesn't have kids who climb over seats to get into the way-back. We've been through several. No matter how whiz-bang single button pushing third-row access is, it sucks. The 6 seat Model X is a diamond.

I agree that is a specific case where the falcon wings do their magic. It is pretty much the only one, though. In the end the falcon wings did not help with third row access much, Tesla's tangentially related (panic) decision to release a six-seater, did, though. The six-seater, the weird little botch job that it is, actually made Model X quite special. Still very weird, but special.

It's 100k+ electric car designed to compete in the already limited market of 6+ seat mom cars. It's sales were never going to be mind-blowing. And I would bet a fair amount that -- for the most part -- the rich-mom-demographic is lagging in interest in electric vehicles and non-German status cars.

I guess a lot people were thinking that was not the sole target market Tesla had in mind.

Model X is truly memorable and special in some ways, but there always seems to be that but... that is standing between it and mainstream success.

There are very, very few buts with Model S.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Don't worry, there will be Model Y and it will also come with FWD.

That and a second-gen Model X. Those will be interesting to watch. How much does Tesla believe in their FWD concept? Will they keep it?

The upside is, certainly Tesla has learned a lot by making these doors. A second try is bound to be better, if such a try comes.

But are they fundamentally niche or can they be made mainstream in the long run?

 

[WarpedOne]

That is not for you to answer nor judge in advance.
As things stand, there is still more demand for X as Tesla has managed to produce.

Once Model X are waiting for customers, there will be time to consider some changes. Until then, FWD, rise!

 

[Electroman]

Don't worry, there will be Model Y and it will also come with FWD.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Don't worry, there will be Model Y and it will also come with FWD.

I suspect there will be much hand-wringing over this vs those that just want a hatchback version of the Model 3 (without FWD). Maybe given the volumes Model 3 targets, Tesla can make a separate hatchback Model 3, without FWD.

 

[disagree]

But are they fundamentally niche or can they be made mainstream in the long run?

Every 100+k car is a niche.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Every 100+k car is a niche.

That is not what I meant though.

Will Model X remain niche within its segment (premium SUV)... that is the question. Or will it eventually threaten the sales of Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne, Volvo XC90, similar how Model S has done in its smaller class (premium sedan).

 

[AnxietyRanger]

That is not for you to answer nor judge in advance.
As things stand, there is still more demand for X as Tesla has managed to produce.

Once Model X are waiting for customers, there will be time to consider some changes. Until then, FWD, rise!

Nor am I doing so. We do not know yet. We shall see how it goes from here.

But I must say first 16 month sales are disappointing given Tesla themselves once publicly said they expected Model X sales to pull away from Model S sales... very quiet on that front since.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Nor am I doing so. We do not know yet. We shall see how it goes from here.

But I must say first 16 month sales are disappointing given Tesla themselves once publicly said they expected Model X sales to pull away from Model S sales... very quiet on that front since.

Disappointing to who? As pointed out, despite a concentrated effort to increase production, the production rate isn't keeping up with demand (what snagged Tesla was the AP2 which slowed production below projected in 2016). The deliveries are reflection of that. The Model X is still the third bestselling plug-in in the US market for 2016, despite this.

And as per the narrative of the doors being a disadvantage in sales, that is impossible to tell. Some people bought the X explicitly because of the doors, some don't care either way, and some held off because of the doors. Hard to tell which proportion is higher. One thing is certain though: the doors do draw a crowd and get people asking questions.

 

[WarpedOne]

FWD are *marketing*

 

[Jurnimon]

top gear article that echos a lot of thoughts in this thread:

Opinion: Tesla needs to stop re-inventing the wheel

personally i love the FWD but my wife hates them. my kids love them tho.

Ditto. The FWD closed unexpectedly and my wife is convinced that it would have closed on her had she not gotten out of the way in the nick of time. She's banged her head on the door when it doesn't open all the way a cople of times.

The doors take some getting used. For my ever aging back, it is a dream putting kids in the second and third row.

 

[disagree]

I broke my kid's finger (on my old car with "regular doors") when I shut the rear door and she unexpectedly reached up and put her hand in there.