Model X vs Trackers

[x-rm]

I remember seeing a post about this recently but now I can't find it - I spoke to my insurance (Directline) on Friday to switch on the cover for the impending Model X arrival (Yay!) and they brought up the subject of trackers. They had not asked when I first got the quote, but I seem to remember that the previous post had mentioned that Tesla's tracking, while far superior to normal trackers, was NOT Thatcham approved. D.L. said the car would not be covered for theft until I got one fitted which is a bit of a worry.

I was wondering if anyone else had encountered this and what the outcome was? Directline is the preferred insurer if you use the Tesla links so I was surprised they were taking this approach, I'm guessing it would not apply to the M3's as the normal threshold for trackers is £75k (not sure but didn't think they got that high even fully loaded?).

 

[MrBadger]

We recently (but before work restrictions) renewed with DL. I found the level of knowledge of the staff member appalling - she was very knowledgeable on what other products she could sell us though! Personally I would ring them again and get them to confirm that with someone with specific Tesla expertise - they use to have a Tesla team but that seems to just fall under new sales these days. I recently had a query (about courtesy car) and it took two attempts to get the correct answer - thankfully I had been tipped off to know roughly what to expect so knew that she was passing on mis information. In the end she asked someone else, at which point she apologised and said that she didn't normally work in that area.

tl;dr don't always accept the first thing that comes out of the mouth of a DL sales person.

 

[x-rm]

We recently (but before work restrictions) renewed with DL. I found the level of knowledge of the staff member appalling - she was very knowledgeable on what other products she could sell us though! Personally I would ring them again and get them to confirm that with someone with specific Tesla expertise - they use to have a Tesla team but that seems to just fall under new sales these days. I recently had a query (about courtesy car) and it took two attempts to get the correct answer - thankfully I had been tipped off to know roughly what to expect so knew that she was passing on mis information. In the end she asked someone else, at which point she apologised and said that she didn't normally work in that area.

tl;dr don't always accept the first thing that comes out of the mouth of a DL sales person.

Thank you - took nearly an hour and a half to get thru with the obvious pressures and staff shortages at the moment. She had to refer to the underwriters about the value as over £100k but made the tracker decision unaided - so well worth a second call once their staffing levels have recovered, I just want to get the damn car home for now, I will hardly be driving it for the forseeable, have CCTV at home, plus it will be easy to park it in if I am feeling vulnerable about it.

I was mostly interested if anyone else had managed to get DL to accept Tesla's tracker, or if anyone remembers where the other post was that has already discussed this

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Why do you think the Tesla tracker is "far superior" to regular trackers?

Third party dedicated trackers are generally located in different locations in the car whereas there are plenty of youtuibe videos showing where the Tesla tracker is and how it can be defeated in seconds on some of the Teslas without any specialist equipment

OEM trackers are also generally buried in the car and very hard to access unlike the majority of Teslas.

The Tesla tracker is not monitored and there is no call centre connected to the police to notify them of a stolen car if you don't respond to a call.

The Tesla tracker doesn't update if the wheels are not turning so flatbed a Tesla and it won't appear to have moved.

These are part of the standards that Thatcham set and Tesla don't meet. That said, quite a few insurance companies do accept the Tesla system e.g. LV. I guess I'm just curious why you'd think the Tesla one is seen to be better.

 

[x-rm]

Why do you think the Tesla tracker is "far superior" to regular trackers?

Third party dedicated trackers are generally located in different locations in the car whereas there are plenty of youtuibe videos showing where the Tesla tracker is and how it can be defeated in seconds on some of the Teslas without any specialist equipment

OEM trackers are also generally buried in the car and very hard to access unlike the majority of Teslas.

The Tesla tracker is not monitored and there is no call centre connected to the police to notify them of a stolen car if you don't respond to a call.

The Tesla tracker doesn't update if the wheels are not turning so flatbed a Tesla and it won't appear to have moved.

These are part of the standards that Thatcham set and Tesla don't meet. That said, quite a few insurance companies do accept the Tesla system e.g. LV. I guess I'm just curious why you'd think the Tesla one is seen to be better.

I thought the Tesla one was better as I was unaware of those restrictions and was under the impression that it was an 'always on' feature that did not require additional fitting or subscriptions. I have not had to fit a tracker to any of my previous cars so am not as familiar with their operation as you, but thought that you had to notify the tracker company if you wanted them to track it, I did not know there was a passive process that monitored the car without being triggered. Plus, I naively believed the Sales Contact at Tesla when he made the same comment without challenging him as to why...

 

[x-rm]

.

I have looked at various articles on this now and it would appear that they use GPS blockers to stop the built in tracker - am I searching for the wrong articles or is this what you were referring to?

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

The Tesla tracker on a Model S and X uses a Sim card to communicate which is located within easy reach of the drivers seat without and any tools - I don't really want to be more specific. But once reached it can be just ripped out or a simple pair of wire cutters can remove. On the latest cars I believe they're doing it differently but thats part of what I was referring to.

Here's an article (results of a quick google) that talk about the different thatcham devices and some of the features. They use RF as well as Celll phones to communicate, plus the monitoring side so a signal blocker wouldn't work unless it did RF as well (although I think the RF side is only useful if you drive past a police car equipped with the detection kit).

The monitored side is the most significant, I had a car that used to trip all the time and I was constantly getting calls to check I'd not stolen it, the idea was good however.

In a way it doesn't matter that much - insurers either accept them or not and things like the immobiliser is something that 3rd party trackers can't do with a Tesla or any EV really as they're largely predicated on the the way ICE cars work to prevent cars starting (not sure how, I think my last tracker interuptred the power to the fuel pump, not something you can do on an EV). But what a Tesla does have is things like pin to drive which helps.

 

[TheManofMead]

It baffles me why people seem to get hung up about the tracker issue. Generally the question asked by the insurer is “is the vehicle fitted with a tracking device”. The answer is Yes. Move on and forget about it. It doesn’t ask about the quality of the tracker or how easy to disarm the Tesla tracker is. It’s not your concern. You have answered the question honestly and correctly. Just move and and forget it. If you use pin to drive (which you really should as an absolute must) then your car will always be where you left it. Tracker or no tracker.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

It baffles me why people seem to get hung up about the tracker issue. Generally the question asked by the insurer is “is the vehicle fitted with a tracking device”. The answer is Yes. Move on and forget about it. It doesn’t ask about the quality of the tracker or how easy to disarm the Tesla tracker is. It’s not your concern. You have answered the question honestly and correctly. Just move and and forget it. If you use pin to drive (which you really should as an absolute must) then your car will always be where you left it. Tracker or no tracker.

in my experience the question asked is either pick a tracker from a list of recognised ones or they ask for a thatcham approved tracker or subscribed to a monitoring service (which the Tesla one isn’t), so I don’t really agree with your opening statement.

screenshot from LV

 

[TheManofMead]

View attachment 527253

in my experience the question asked is either pick a tracker from a list of recognised ones or they ask for a thatcham approved tracker or subscribed to a monitoring service (which the Tesla one isn’t), so I don’t really agree with your opening statement.

screenshot from LV

I would suggest that by purchasing the car you are receiving a tracker service free of charge from Tesla. Therefore you are subscribing. It doesn’t mean there has to be a physical monthly payment. I stand by what I said answer yes and move on.

 

[ringi]

The "Tesla Tracker" has the advantage that combined with the supercharger system few people who understand cars think it is worth the risk of stealing a Tesla.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I would suggest that by purchasing the car you are receiving a tracker service free of charge from Tesla. Therefore you are subscribing. It doesn’t mean there has to be a physical monthly payment. I stand by what I said answer yes and move on.

I’d suggest you are wrong. Tesla don’t actively monitor your car for theft which is what a monitoring service is.

So my answer is still No and suggesting anyone should take a liberal interpretation of the requirement and risk invalidation that part of their insurance is totally irresponsible. Checking with your insurer and getting them to confirm may well result in a ‘yes it’s ok’ but that’s very different from your suggestion.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

The "Tesla Tracker" has the advantage that combined with the supercharger system few people who understand cars think it is worth the risk of stealing a Tesla.

Go on eBay and see how many right hand drive Tesla parts are available in Latvia (and where are those cars sourced... the UK) . Not all cars are stolen to be driven.

 

[TheManofMead]

I’d suggest you are wrong. Tesla don’t actively monitor your car for theft which is what a monitoring service is.

So my answer is still No and suggesting anyone should take a liberal interpretation of the requirement and risk invalidation that part of their insurance is totally irresponsible. Checking with your insurer and getting them to confirm may well result in a ‘yes it’s ok’ but that’s very different from your suggestion.

Neither Tesla not many monitoring Tracking services actively monitor your car for theft. The instigator in determining the theft is in most cases you finding your car not where you left it. Even Tracker services with "on/off" ignition monitoring are no use whatsoever if the thief has obtained your car by getting the key fob or entry card (and you don't have pin to drive active). In this scenario the Tracking device has no idea the car is stolen. It is reliant on you reporting the theft to the monitoring company...or logging into your monitoring app on your phone....just like you would to your Tesla app to locate where your stolen vehicle is. As I have found with my own vehicle the moment your car is moved or tilted (eg by theft to transporter) you get notified immediately by Tesla. If that is not active monitoring I don't know what is.

I completely disagree I have taken a liberal interpretation. Re-read the wording of the additional information to the question about the tracker. The answers to both questions in that additional information is yes, and there is absolutely no liberal interpretation as you describe it.

In one of your previous posts, if the question had been counched in terms of specific thatcham grade trackers then that would be a different matter, and my answer would be different.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

We'll have to agreee to disagree

3rd party trackers do monitor the car depending on which class you go for, I've had calls before now on cars when they've been playing up.

And for anyone reading they can either "believe a man off the internet that they don't need to check" and in doing so risk their insurance being invalid for theft or "believe a man off the internet that its better to be safe than sorry and check with the insurer" as its better to be safe than sorry.

I know which I do.

 

[4EVar]

We have insured the new Model X with Direct Line. They have asked for the brand of tracker fitted and when we said Tesla's own, they said they need proof of the tracker. Until they get this, the car is not insured for theft, What do we send them?

 

[MrBadger]

They may accept what is under insurance Frequently Asked Questions – Order & Delivery tbh, you probably need to talk to someone else at DL who is more knowledgeable - its not like your Model X is going to be the first one that they have ever insured.

Otherwise, its so easy to defeat, it probably does not meet their specification so you may need to get a third party one.

Tracker in my old car was totally hidden and they refused to even tell me where it was fitted. Here is a 29 second video on how to access the Sim card on a Model X. Its not really in the same league. Sim card defeated, no tracking, game over.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

DL have a Tesla team. Their details are/used to be on the Tesla website so I’d start with them if you can find them

DL also used to give a 10% discount if you have autopilot so ask about that while you’re talking to them

 

[4EVar]

DL have a Tesla team. Their details are/used to be on the Tesla website so I’d start with them if you can find them

DL also used to give a 10% discount if you have autopilot so ask about that while you’re talking to them

I have the Autopilot discount. They're just being arsy about the tracker.