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Model X vs Volvo XC90

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#82
Krugerrand said:
Is it normal to compare safety test results of a sedan to a SUV/CUV? Don't the two by their difference in body shape mean crash test results are likely to be different? For example, one would expect rollover to be easier achieved in an SUV/CUV vs a sedan.
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Tesla actually did it during the Model X event as a reference point. We don't have actual stats for the Model X by an independent 3rd party (e.g. IIHS, NHTSA, Euro Ncap...etc) at the moment, so they were using Model S stats. I have no affiliation with these people, don't even have an account there.

Note that Model S actually has the least intrusion, but despite that the actual body injury measures were not nearly as impressive and actually worse in many measures.

Perhaps this slide is more of a marketing gimmick rather than a representation of actual safety. This is not to say that the Model S/X are not safe, however.


vlcsnap-2015-10-03-22h28m49s206.png


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Magus said:
For obvious reasons, this is a hilarious post. This is what happens when you make comments on which you really know nothing about. Embarrassing.
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What are you talking about? Sounds like you are the one that drank the Kool-Aid to me.
 
#85
#86
X-Wing said:
Tesla actually did it during the Model X event as a reference point. We don't have actual stats for the Model X by an independent 3rd party (e.g. IIHS, NHTSA, Euro Ncap...etc) at the moment, so they were using Model S stats. I have no affiliation with these people, don't even have an account there.
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Context is important. It wasn't used as a straight up comparison, they did not compare the S directly to the Q5 or XC60. The S was compared to the X to add credibility/significance to the X score.

They did compare their (Tesla's) X results vs one of the other SUV/CUVs (I don't recall which one they showed a picture of). And yes, *minor* injury rate in the X may be higher in that direct comparison with the other SUV/CUV, HOWEVER - and this is the context - because of the SIGNIFICANT protrusion of the pole in the other SUV/CUVs means serious injury AND death rate would be higher. I don't know about you, but I'll take a concussion and whiplash over crushed limbs, punctured organs et al.
 
#87
Krugerrand said:
They did compare their (Tesla's) X results vs one of the other SUV/CUVs (I don't recall which one they showed a picture of). And yes, *minor* injury rate in the X may be higher in that direct comparison with the other SUV/CUV, HOWEVER - and this is the context - because of the SIGNIFICANT protrusion of the pole in the other SUV/CUVs means serious injury AND death rate would be higher. I don't know about you, but I'll take a concussion and whiplash over crushed limbs, punctured organs et al.
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To be fair to the others, I don't think the intrusion was enough to crush limbs or puncture organs. I imagine it would be noted on the test if that was the case. It is true however, we should wait for X numbers before comparing.
 
#89
The last time we test drove a Volvo they had some crazy lockout system that prevented any use of the navigation system while driving, regardless of whether a passenger was in the car or not. That, in and of itself, was the deal breaker and we have never looked at another Volvo. Same can be said for lexus too. Has the Volvo nanny state changed in the last few years?
 
#91
Andex23 said:
The last time we test drove a Volvo they had some crazy lockout system that prevented any use of the navigation system while driving, regardless of whether a passenger was in the car or not. That, in and of itself, was the deal breaker and we have never looked at another Volvo. Same can be said for lexus too. Has the Volvo nanny state changed in the last few years?
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I have never owned any Volvo that blocks the nav from working while in motion.

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CarlK said:
Just like people who are not interested in the X anymore but choose to stay on the X forum.
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Just like people that are not looking to buy a Tesla but still comment in the For Sale section.
 
#93
Douglas said:
I have never owned any Volvo that blocks the nav from working while in motion.

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Just like people that are not looking to buy a Tesla but still comment in the For Sale section.
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We test drove the XC 90 T6 today. The only part of the new Sensus system that turns off when you're in motion are some of the vehicle settings. You can enter addresses while in motion.

It's a fantastic car in many ways and pretty average in many others. It's got ONE USB port.... in the whole car.
 
#94
Model X vs. XC90 T8

I moved my long post comparing Model X BEV to Volvo XC90 T8 Plug-In Hybrid from the X Sig cancel thread here where it belongs:

Full disclosure: TSLA stockholder since 2012. Own no stock in Volvo's parent holding company.

Volvo is owned by Chinese-automaker Zhejiang Geely Holding Group, aka Geely [source: Wikipedia.org]

Personally, as an American citizen, I would buy a Tesla before I would EVER even consider buying a product from a company that is owned by a Chinese firm. It's nothing personal. In fact, my wife is Taiwanese-American. I spent 3 weeks in China this past May touring the country. I had a great time except the major cities are so polluted I wondered how anybody can live there.

IMHO, Americans need to support our American economy and American manufacturing jobs. Geely has already started exporting Chinese-made Volvos to the USA:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/20/asia/shanghai-auto-show-volvo/

They don't manufacture anything in the USA:

http://www.ask.com/business-finance/volvos-manufactured-a01f671a0263da62

unlike 10 other non-US brands:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automotive_assembly_plants_in_the_United_States

I've bought and leased Mercedes SUVs that are built in Vance, Alabama.

Out of curiosity, I checked out this Volvo XC90 T8 Twin Engine Plug-in Hybrid.

Volvo XC90 T8 Plug-In Hybrid Compared to Model X Pure BEV:

  • T8 has a 400 hp 2.0 liter direct-injected turbo & supercharged internal combustion engine I certainly don't want polluting the environment whenever it kicks in. Nor do I want to have to go to a gas station to fill it up, or pay the dealer to service it.
  • Both can tow 5,000 lbs.
  • T8 electric-only range is 25 miles which is a joke, and it also says "save mode allows for optimal charge of battery while driving ensuring battery energy level provides about 12 miles of pure electric driving". Impressed! (not) X P90D range is 250 EPA, while 90D is 257.
  • T8 has Start/Stop Tech to turn off engine at traffic lights so you don't pollute the environment when you're not going anywhere. So does my Mercedes. ICE desperation!
  • T8 has Air Suspension option, but no GPS-based automation like the X.
  • T8 Interior Air Quality System (IAQS) "removes 70% of fine dust", and they also "vent out emissions before drivers enter". The X doesn't have any "emissions" to vent out, and Elon said they could not detect anything inside the X cabin with their system: "it is almost like a hospital operating room".
  • T8 has "Roll(over) Stability Control (RSC)" which I'm sure they need since they don't have the X's very low center of gravity
  • T6 EPA is 20 (City)/25 (Highway)/22 (Combined). X 90D is 90 (City)/94 (Highway)/92 (Combined). X P90D is 89 (City)/90 (Highway)/89 (Combined).
  • I didn't see any published T8 safety ratings?
  • T8 0-60 mph: 5.9 sec. X 90D: 4.8 sec. X P90D: 3.8 sec., 3.2 sec. with Ludicrous Speed Upgrade
  • T8 is missing many other X features that are too numerous to list here. Are there any XC90 T8 features missing from the X?

Volvo XC90 T8 base price is less expensive, but like most things in life, you get what you pay for.

This vehicle will be minor competition for the X, which I believe will eat Benz ML, GL; BMW X5, X6; Lexus RX/GX/LX; and Audi Q7's lunch. On Tues. night, I felt lucky to watch Elon's presentation standing right next to GeorgeB. He said (paraphrasing): "I know those guys in Germany and Japan are watching this right now and they are very, very unhappy." [and then he smiled]

That said, as a TSLA stockholder since 2012 :biggrin:, I hope they come to their senses and offer a folding second row seat option while they still have this long reservation queue so they can address this important use case that seems quite significant judging from TMC posts.
 
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#95
I think way too many people here are taking this as an actual comparison. There is no debate that the Model X outperforms the XC90 on most/all fronts. It's just hard to justify two $120k cars (eg if you already own a P85D) in a household sometimes. So you've got to look for an alternative with the least compromises...
 
#96
The XC90 outperforms the X on a number of important issues for potential buyers. The seats fold flat in both rear rows for a nice large cargo area, and you can put a roof rack on there with very little loss of range. It's also cheaper and probably available earlier than the X. The T8 does come with a range penalty of a smaller gas tank and no spare tire because of the battery. it's more of a performance model/around town driver than a true road trip version, but I've been considering it for a year or so now since I first started researching options to replace our 2007 Odyssey. In the end it was narrowed down to a GL350, X, or XC90 and back in February when I needed to order, only the GL350 was available to purchase. I'm keeping my X reservation just in case, but I'll certainly be driving the T8 when it gets to the local dealership, because we eventually need another 7 seater for the family within a couple of years. Unless you are hard core EV or nothing else, it's certainly a reasonable alternative to consider. If you are only looking at pure EVs, then Tesla is the only one to consider IMO, the other are just too small, no charging infrastructure or are just not visually appealing to me.
 
#97
kf93 said:
The XC90 outperforms the X on a number of important issues for potential buyers. The seats fold flat in both rear rows for a nice large cargo area, and you can put a roof rack on there with very little loss of range. It's also cheaper and probably available earlier than the X. The T8 does come with a range penalty of a smaller gas tank and no spare tire because of the battery. it's more of a performance model/around town driver than a true road trip version, but I've been considering it for a year or so now since I first started researching options to replace our 2007 Odyssey. In the end it was narrowed down to a GL350, X, or XC90 and back in February when I needed to order, only the GL350 was available to purchase. I'm keeping my X reservation just in case, but I'll certainly be driving the T8 when it gets to the local dealership, because we eventually need another 7 seater for the family within a couple of years. Unless you are hard core EV or nothing else, it's certainly a reasonable alternative to consider. If you are only looking at pure EVs, then Tesla is the only one to consider IMO, the other are just too small, no charging infrastructure or are just not visually appealing to me.
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Agree that second row fold flat is a use case TSLA missed and should offer later on. (After all the high-profile TMC Sig X cancellations that want this feature, they'll probably start the design next week.)

My opinion differs on the roof rack. X has a accessory hitch (not the 5,000 lbs. optional hitch you pay for) that can hold 6 pairs of skis, forget how many snowboards Elon said(?), or 4 bicycles. You can still open the rear hitch with it attached. A child connected it during Elon's demo. I've skied for years and it's going to be a lot easier to put the skis on the rear accessory hitch than on top with a roof rack. I believe the aerodynamics will be a lot better, too.

One of the vehicles I drove while waiting 3.5 years for the X was a 2012 ML350 BlueTEC, 20 City, 27 Highway, 22 Combined for the 2012. It was a solid choice for a stopgap if only 5 seats are needed while waiting -- good Driver Assistance Package with distronic plus, pre-safe brake, active blind spot assist and lane keeping (a joke) assist. I business leased it. I had to replace it at the end of April, 2013 when my lease ended and the X was delayed again. I could have extended the lease by 6 months, but that wouldn't be enough to get my X. I decided to single pay lease a relatively inexpensive E350 gas ICE (used as taxicabs in Germany), and accumulate the savings for a possible upgrade to X Performance for a second mid-life crisis vehicle. :biggrin:

My first was a 2007 CLK 550 Cabriolet with a 5.5-liter V8 (382 hp) that did 0-60 in 5.1 seconds with paddle shifters. I used to think that was fast until Tesla started making cars!
 
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#98
AnOutsider said:
Starting this thread as this is the vehicle that many seem to cross-shop with the X and I thought it might be useful to have a singular place for discussion (and off topic dumping ground for us mods :wink:).

I must also confess to being curious myself. I'd seen the XC90 at a car show and liked it very much. The center screen was nice and the interior definitely felt luxury. I didn't know Volvo was serious though, and wrote it off as a nice concept put out there to distract from the Model X. Glad to be wrong.

I configured one of the e models online, and our options maxed us out 80,705. That was for a nice, luxurious interior, exterior color we both loved, HUD and all the active driver assist stuff the Model X should have. No SW updates and insane launches, but for a family hauler? I think it's good. No FWD, but after I showed her the reveal video, my wife didn't like them much in any case.

So,those cross-shopping, what ticks the boxes for you? What will you end up choosing?
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In my opinion this thread is extremely questionable. Why is there a thread filled with details of another car in the Model X sub-forum? According to my comprehension this sub forum is to talk about X. If poster's who aren't interested in the X anymore want to buy another that's fine, but why are they discussing it in the X forum? I hope its not some excuse like "Hope Tesla sees this and we force them to ad features we want".

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AnOutsider said:
There are a lot of people that are happy with the Model X? There are many who aren't. If you are happy and not interested in cross shopping, why enter a thread on that topic to shake your head at those in it?
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Wow!! May I remind you this is X sub-forum, its not a cross shopping sub forum. This is a place where people and owner come to read about Model X. According to my opinion (I maybe wrong) if a person who is not interested in X anymore needs to post where he finds the car he is interested in rather than use the X-forum for the car he like. If you are happy with XC90 or any other car, want to help people to buy XC90 or any other car and are not interested in X why create a thread in X forum about it? (Its my opinion, I am a new user and certainly if majority of users are ok with this then its fine. Though I will still disagree with this use of X forum (not that anyone cares about my opinion though).)
 
#99
There's a Forum Where you can go Discuss XC90 and this is not it

ankitmishra said:
Wow!! May I remind you this is X sub-forum, its not a cross shopping sub forum. This is a place where people and owner come to read about Model X. According to my opinion (I maybe wrong) if a person who is not interested in X anymore needs to post where he finds the car he is interested in rather than use the X-forum for the car he like.
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I agree with you, ankitmishra. Anyone who wants to learn more about or discuss XC90 can go here:

http://forums.swedespeed.com/forumdisplay.php?5020-XC90-(2016-)

We haven't been going to Audi, Benz, BMW, Lexus, etc. SUV/CUV forums and hijacking them by adding threads discussing how the Model X is superior to them all! :biggrin: They'll all learn soon enough when the see their first X in the wild with the FWD's open and talk to the owner.

Come to think of it, I think I'll post my earlier Model X vs. XC 90 comparison and "some Volvo's are made in China and none in the US" rant over there to see how they respond. :mad:
 
#100
I think it's completely fine to *compare* the XC90 and the Model X in this forum. If the thread was only about the XC90, then it would fit better somewhere else.

peteyswift said:
I think way too many people here are taking this as an actual comparison. There is no debate that the Model X outperforms the XC90 on most/all fronts. It's just hard to justify two $120k cars (eg if you already own a P85D) in a household sometimes. So you've got to look for an alternative with the least compromises...
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It is an actual comparison. I'd say the XC90 T8 and the Model X have their pros and cons, but they are certainly competitors.

Pros, Model X 90D:

- All-electric
- Free long-distance for life
- Better safety (maybe not active safety features, Volvo is good at that)
- Quieter
- Smoother ride
- Better air filtration
- More performance
- Falcon wing doors
- Windscreen
- Low center of gravity
- Larger touchscreen

Pros, XC90 T8:

- Better looking (debatable)
- Better cargo utility
- Convenient use of roof rack/box
- Better reliability
- Cheaper
- Somewhat faster long distance travel
- Greater attention paid to interior details
- Sunroof
- 6000 lb towing in Europe
- Better navigation
- Active LED headlights (follows road)

After thinking about it, I'm personally not convinced by the XC90, but is it a worthwhile comparison? Definitely.
 
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