Model X Will Have Greater Comparative Advantage

[WhiteKnight]

Both of these ideas (vfx & dsm363) are interesting options, IMO. Obviously you've got a battery pack now that can haul it's own weight (~1,000#) plus the weight of the car (3,000#) plus the weight of the occupants (up to 1,000#) and haul them pretty quickly (0-50 in 5.6s). The Model X will add a second electric motor in the front. Having a second battery pack should enable you to tow another 4,000# plus.

[Another way to think about it might be a 300 mile pack will move 4,000-5,000 pounds 300 miles. If you add 6,000 pounds of payload then that would cut your range to like ~130 miles from 300].

The problem of course is the battery is the most expensive part of the car. Adding 70 miles (from 160 to 230 and from 230 to 300) adds $10,000 each time. That's like $140 per mile. So the base battery pack with 160 miles costs like $23K and 230 and 300 cost $33K and $43K. So adding another 300 mile battery pack to the car or to the trailer would be big bucks!!

In the end I think that the weight is just one factor. Once you're at highway speeds the drag from the wind resistance is a bigger factor than weight. I'm not smart enough to figure out how that factors in to the equation.

 

[NigelM]

As someone who sees lots of boats being trailered around I have been following this thread with interest. In my (limited?) experience the vast majority of heavy trailering is not long distance, mainly because reduced mpg tends to make pulling pretty expensive - this problem is not going to be fixed by adding expensive batteries, but may not need fixing at all if those journeys are primarily under 100 miles.

As far as the longer term is concerned I wonder if there is (will be) some EV form of Moore's law that will manifest in battery/power development?

 

[VolkerP]

As far as the longer term is concerned I wonder if there is (will be) some EV form of Moore's law that will manifest in battery/power development?

There are improvements, but the pace is far slower than Moore's law. A good explanation of physical limits is given in The Three Laws of Batteries (and a Bonus Zeroth Law) Cleantech News and Analysis .

 

[WhiteKnight]

ATDynamics - Fuel Efficiency Aerodynamic Technology for Tractor Trailers saving over 10% with TrailerTail and Side Skirts

Thanks for mentioning this red42shorty. Isn't it crazy that they could save so much gas just by making these few additions to their truck! That's what $4 diesel will do for you.

 

[Iggy]

Somewhat related to the topic. At the very least it shows what one group has accomplished in this area.

Electric Car Tows Rocket Trike, Making History http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RPKKN-gLa0

 

[neroden]

As far as the longer term is concerned I wonder if there is (will be) some EV form of Moore's law that will manifest in battery/power development?

Yes, there will be. I happen to know some people involved in energy storage technology. It shouldn't be at the same speed as Moore's Law, and there will eventually be a point where we "hit the wall", but there are major advances coming down the pike for the next decade or so, at an exponential rate.

 

[vfx]

Yes, there will be. I happen to know some people involved in energy storage technology. It shouldn't be at the same speed as Moore's Law, and there will eventually be a point where we "hit the wall", but there are major advances coming down the pike for the next decade or so, at an exponential rate.

Once nano tech hits the consumer market that should be enough to to turn the tide on batteries and solar...

 

[WhiteKnight]

It will be interesting to find out February 9th what kind of towing capabilities the Model X does or does not have. If it was being billed as an SUV I would expect 6,000+ lbs capacity, but since it's being billed as a crossover I'm wondering if this will be a focus at all? Like, can an Acura ZDX tow anything?

 

[AnOutsider]

If they're making kits for the Nissan leaf (unofficially) I'd imagine the X can handle it

 

[dsm363]

Most people who have large trucks or pickup trucks never go off-road or tow anything. If they do, it's a small boat or something similar. I could see them designing it with a hitch to tow things your average person might want to tow but nothing like a serious/heavy payload.

 

[Bearman]

Once you're at highway speeds the drag from the wind resistance is a bigger factor than weight. I'm not smart enough to figure out how that factors in to the equation.

Got these examples from the airforums:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/gas-mileage-77214.html

Mercedes GL320 "Bluetec" (398 lb.-ft) towing a 30-foot Airstream(7500 pounds) at 62 mph gets 14 mpg compared to 27 mpg without any towing.

and

We've towed our 2012 International Serenity 27fb from Portland, OR to Tucson, AZ (via Boise, ID and Las Vegas, NV - about 2,100 miles) with our 2011 BMW X5 35d. Fuel economy has been 16.4 mpg...not too bad. Unhitched fuel economy (highway) for the X5 is around 26 mpg.

 

[Robert.Boston]

I sincerely doubt that the Model X will be recommended for towing RVs! Although it may seem a natural (given that RV campgrounds are reliable sources of 240v charging), RVers tend to favor long-haul driving. Given Bearman's examples, that would probably mean ~160kWh batteries to get 300 miles -- about $64,000 just in battery costs!

 

[Lyon]

I would be pretty surprised to see 6000lbs towing capacity. Virtually none of the CUVs on the market are rated for that kind of weight. In order to tow 6000lbs you're moving up to the larger SUVs (think traditional truck chassis) like a Suburban or a Sequoia. some CUVs like the the VW Touareg and the Land Rover LR4 claim 7700lbs ish towing capacity but are functionally limited to less by the in ability to handle 700-800lbs of tongue weight.

If the Model X can do 4500 only a very few buyers will be put off.

 

[Cobos]

Isn't there some Top Gear or Fifth Gear episode where the Tuareg tows a 737? Though that might have been a special rig, I can't remember.

Cobos

 

[Bruno Suárez]

What about how it stacks up to the BMW X3 and X5? I think those will probably be good targets as well. Maybe even the X6 as it is probably closer to that body style.

What if the Tesla Model X turns out to be slightly similar in exterior design to the BMW X6...just with way, way better driving visibility overall.

 

[KBF]

Isn't there some Top Gear or Fifth Gear episode where the Tuareg tows a 737? Though that might have been a special rig, I can't remember.

Cobos

We all know how factually accurate Top Gear is...

 

[WhiteKnight]

What if the Tesla Model X turns out to be slightly similar in exterior design to the BMW X6...just with way, way better driving visibility overall.

I think that's a win because I like the way the X6 looks!

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

I think that's a win because I like the way the X6 looks!

With practically no headroom in the back?!! Maybe, the third row of seats in the Model X would suffer from the same problem?!

 

[Bruno Suárez]

With practically no headroom in the back?!! Maybe, the third row of seats in the Model X would suffer from the same problem?!

Ah. Unfortunately I had overlooked that specific detail... Third row of seats-headroom.

 

[Selector]

I would be happy if it looks like this one.
Imagine a large 105 kWh battery pack, taking you 0-60 in under 5,5 seconds, and some amazing 500 horsepower. Awesome!