Model Y 2021 Purchase

[FatherTo1]

I think it is a pretty fair comparison. The cheapest Acura SUV vs. the cheapest Tesla SUV. A 40k base price for the Acura vs 62k for the Tesla. Not like we were comparing it to a Lexus. The RDX is the upgraded CRV.

As for options, I didn't say air suspension. I said better/adjustable. So give me better suspension or suspension I can adjust to my liking or auto adjust for me. Another display wouldn't have cost a ton to implement. Having your main info out of the line of sight is pretty terrible to be honest. Back to the RDX, it had HUD. Didn't ask for that but a lot of cars have it now. I don't think asking for those things makes it seem like I want an X.

Look at the BMW X series. You don't have to go to the top of the line BMW to get a lot of these features, nor should you have to. I didn't ask for massaging seats, drink cooler, etc. Just things that are fairly common in the price point/class the Y sits in. The RDX is the bottom of the SUV line in the Acura range. Overall the Acura name isn't as luxurious as Lexus for example across the line. Basically Acura is "near-luxury".

In this segment (Y), there is a lot of competition. Hyundai/Kia is really gaining here. Once they iron some of the kinks out of the MME, it definitely has the Y square in its sights. When you factor in the price of a new Y, lack of rebates, a lot of other models can be pretty compelling options. Obviously, I appreciate Tesla as I've dropped about 200k on their vehicles in less than a year. As an engineer, I appreciate a lot of what they've accomplished but also confounded by some of their design choices.

When you start dropping 60k on a car, there are a lot of things people expect regardless of the drivetrain. A lot of great things about Tesla but I think the competition is really gaining on them in areas that matter to a lot of people, rather than some of the stuff we debate on this forum. Don't even want to think about how crappy the quality control is on Tesla. My MS should not have its door rubbing on the fender when I took delivery. Regardless of price point, the customer deserves better than that. As the rest of the world catches up to Tesla, the less likely they are to overlook these flaws. There shouldn't be any QC issues when buying a 50k+ car.

The cheapest $40k RDX doesn’t have HUD, adaptive dampers, nor surround view. You need to step up to at least the $50K SH-AWD Advance trim for those goodies. So Model Y is still $13K more but offers better performance, more cargo capacity, arguably better tech and OTA updates, plus lower cost of ownership/maintenance/gas savings. If the Model Y were a gas car I very well would’ve still picked it over the RDX, but I also bought when the Y was only $51.5K. The appeal of EVs is the drivetrain and tech, all other features are secondary and not dealbreakers to most people.

A HUD is nice and so are adjustable dampeners but rather than point out features that Teslas are missing from other competitors, I instead see how hard the competition has to market extra features to get the public’s attention because the core ICE design can’t compete with the most advanced (volume) EV maker on the market.

I agree that competition is catching up but the substantial price increases by Rivian highlight how difficult it is to fully develop a product with performance/range, tech, and price on par with any Tesla model. Tesla used to have separate packages for Subzero, Premium, Ultra Hi-Fi options and eventually all those features became standard. Tesla isn’t sitting still so maybe more of those mainstream features, such as HUD, 360-surround, ventilated seats will become standard across the lineup at a future time but I don’t think they need to be a priority today. Our Model S and Y are plenty comfortable and outstanding vehicles without those add-ons.

 

[xyeahtony]

Look at the BMW X series. You don't have to go to the top of the line BMW to get a lot of these features, nor should you have to. I didn't ask for massaging seats, drink cooler, etc. Just things that are fairly common in the price point/class the Y sits in. The RDX is the bottom of the SUV line in the Acura range. Overall the Acura name isn't as luxurious as Lexus for example across the line. Basically Acura is "near-luxury".

I think the point is that EVs cost more than ICE equivalents, so there are bound to be some sacrifices. As for a base level BMW, they don't come with homelink either. To the OP's point, the car does include navigation without having to pay for premium connectivity, you just dont see live traffic status, but traffic status is still factored into the navigation. Things like netflix, well data isn't cheap or free and i'm not aware of any other vehicle out there that gives you free netflix viewing in your car, or an internet browser. OP is comparing to a Model S that starts at $80k+. If you are buying a $65k Model Y, you can afford the $100/year premium connectivity fee for several decades and it still wouldn't be as much as the Model S. So sure, you got free connectivity in your 8 year old Model S, you also paid like $40k more. So was it really "free" to begin with? Its like free supercharging, Tesla doesn't do that anymore. Are you missing out on anything if you supercharge maybe 5 times a year? The cheapest Tesla before the 3/Y was the S, and it was in the $80k range during that time. So anyone who thinks they got all that for free is fooling themselves, you paid for it in the higher priced vehicle.

Look at Audi, you have to pay extra for something as simple as "sync" in climate control. And everyone is going to say Audi is "luxury" Audi Owner Finds Basic HVAC Function Paywalled After Pressing the Button for It

And if you look at cars, its very common for entry level "luxury" vehicles to not have features that are otherwise standard on the lower models. Radar cruise control on an Infiniti? only available if you buy a technology package, yet its somehow standard on a $19k Nissan sentra. Low end cars have to pack more features to compete, while luxury cars bundle more items because they know people can and will pay.

 

[DayTrippin]

While battery cost isn't insignificant, the cost of an ICE motor, turbo, fuel injection system, fuel tank, etc. and transmission isn't cheap either, and likely is far more than the electric motors Tesla is using. So that offsets some of the battery costs. All you have to do is look at the project margins per vehicle to see that. Their profit margin per car is 30%! Contrast that with an avg. profit margin of 7.5% across all manufacturers.

It is pretty obvious that we are being taken for a ride by our Teslas in more ways than one. Why? Because there is still high enough demand to command the price premium they do. It is clearly obvious by those margins Tesla could add a few luxurious touches and STILL have huge margins.

One of the key differences about Tesla is if it doesn't come standard, you are out of luck. No chance of paying more, even with inflated margins, to get options you want. I totally understand why they do it. At the same time, it limits the consumer and you are stuck with the Henry Ford approach of initially you can have any car color you want as long as it is black.

If you want to bow down and worship everything Elon does, great. I am one of the ones who will be championing more choices, even better design decisions and actually listening to feedback from buyers. I want a good car, not just a battery pack with wheels. I drove the BMW I4 recently. It's a very fine car. In many ways it is much better than my 3. At current pricing, I think the 3 is a better value but if pricing continues to drift upward BMW is a compelling alternative to the 3, especially with the gov't incentives.

I love my Teslas. Call me a fan of the cars but not a fanatic. I am actively watching the market. If something better comes along, I'll definitely look at it. If compelling enough, I'll sell my Tesla(s) and buy it. If I can't get what I want in Tesla, but I can get it with BMW/Porsche/Audi etc. and spend a bit more (or even a lot more) money to get what I really want, then I am not opposed to doing it. The S really ticked almost all my boxes of what I wanted. The 3 was going to basically be a commuter car so wasn't worried as much there. Sort of like the OP, don't see why they couldn't have at least kept the 1 yr. premium connectivity. That was a pretty cheap move given the profit margins.

 

[FatherTo1]

Fair point on the margins, but are you really faulting a company for being profitable? I wonder what Apple’s margins are on their popular products. Keep in mind Tesla also has to support its own stores/service centers and continually expanding Supercharger network to benefit customers, and eventually all EV owners. Traditional ICE manufacturers do not own/operate dealerships and don’t have to contend with the same infrastructure overhead, and can survive/thrive with lower margins.

Leading the industry and staying innovative takes a lot more work and resources than following the leader. Tesla can certainly save money by building cars better and avoiding having to make post-sale corrections, but that is an area Tesla has definitely improved upon. Our 2019 Model S had 1-2 paint issues and our 2021 Model Y didn’t have any issues upon delivery and I still haven’t spotted any after seven months. I don’t believe Tesla does everything right, but I recognize the monumental milestones they’ve accomplished and their continual improvements. Tesla still has the highest levels of customer satisfaction with their vehicles and many of the competition would love to have Tesla’s demand problems.

 

[Cybermoose]

Honestly I disagree with the post.

No 14-50 adapter to me is fine because I understand that lots of people have different charging methods. I don't need it and my friends that have Teslas don't need it; we bought wall connectors. Sure, not everyone gets the wall connector and some will need that adapter but that doesn't mean that every single car should come with something that many people might just toss into a drawer and never touch.

No garage door opener. Part of me thinks the same as not having the 14-50 adapter. Many people will never touch this feature because they don't have a garage. but personally having it in the car seems a little unnecessary to me. I set up a garage door opener that works with an app on my phone. I can use google assistant to open my garage whether i'm in my car, on my bike, walking home and want to enter through the garage to get my car and go back out. sure it would be convienient for it to be in the car and I think the main reason is just that the majority of people probably don't own a garage or store their Tesla in the garage.

As for the premium connectivity stuff. I don't think that should be free, maybe this is just me as a Tesla investor but Tesla is selling some amazing cars at good prices. Yes they are expensive but I don't think their cost is unreasonable in the slightest for what you get. That being said, it costs Tesla for this network to be available and for us to have our connection active, that is a cost that should be passed to the consumer. While early adopters got it for free, just like early Tesla owners also get free supercharging, that isn't something that should be free for everyone to buy a Tesla in the future. We're talking about a hundred dollars a year of potential revenue for millions of Tesla owners. That's a lot of money that could be put towards research and development. Sure some other luxury manufacturers have similar equipment that doesn't have a monthly cost, but I don't think anything compares to Tesla yet.

 

[Z_Lynx]

Luxury is in the eye of the beholder.

When the second new car you buy takes you from a now 33 year old Honda Wagovan to a Model Y, that Tesla looks awfully good.

Prime features I looked for with the Honda were cruise control (didn't get) and intermittent windshield wipers.
Prime features I wanted in my next new car; electric and space to haul things.

Everything else was fudge, cherries, nuts, and sprinkles on top. And a damn fast car.

 

[DayTrippin]

Fair point on the margins, but are you really faulting a company for being profitable? I wonder what Apple’s margins are on their popular products. Keep in mind Tesla also has to support its own stores/service centers and continually expanding Supercharger network to benefit customers, and eventually all EV owners. Traditional ICE manufacturers do not own/operate dealerships and don’t have to contend with the same infrastructure overhead, and can survive/thrive with lower margins.

Leading the industry and staying innovative takes a lot more work and resources than following the leader. Tesla can certainly save money by building cars better and avoiding having to make post-sale corrections, but that is an area Tesla has definitely improved upon. Our 2019 Model S had 1-2 paint issues and our 2021 Model Y didn’t have any issues upon delivery and I still haven’t spotted any after seven months. I don’t believe Tesla does everything right, but I recognize the monumental milestones they’ve accomplished and their continual improvements. Tesla still has the highest levels of customer satisfaction with their vehicles and many of the competition would love to have Tesla’s demand problems.

I think we agree on a lot of things. I am less likely to give Tesla a pass any more than I was before. I am a capitalist by nature. If the market will tolerate it, charge away. At some point, people will stop buying when the price outweighs the perceived benefit.

The high level of customer satisfaction I think is due in large part to a huge base of avid Tesla fans. As more "normal" people buy them, I believe they will be less tolerant of all things we just take as a given such as the sketchy QC. Sketchy QC shouldn't even be an issue at this price point regardless of the mission. Slow down and put the cars together. Profitability is already good, been building cars for a pretty long time, no more excuses allowed about quality. My Y was almost perfect. My S and 3 far worse, but not terrible. Contrast that with a friend whose S came for his wife finally and it was horrendously bad. I didn't see it in person but he sent me a long video highlighting all the issues on their S. There was paint literally rubbed off from where the trunk hit the body panel. It was down through the color and base coats. This was the only issue like that. Trim alignment issues. Huge door gaps and more. Pretty much a classic case of the horror stories you might hear. Who knows how bad things are that you can't see on it. It should have NEVER left the factory that way but apparently, Tesla thought it was good enough.

After seeing how bad his was I was really reluctant to get my car after that. It showed up in the rain so was hard to see everything well but when the first thing I saw was paint rubbed off on my mirror I thought it was going to be as atrocious as his car. When the frunk was so high on one side that it looked like water could go right in the trunk, my concern level went up. I had to let my car set for weeks before they could finally get it in to fix it. Total BS! If I used the door at all it would have made the condition worse and a lot of painting would have been required to make it look right. Heaven knows how bad that could have turned out with paint mismatch. I should have just rejected the car but after waiting 9 months I just wanted it to be over and finally drive it.

My friend's wife was finally happy with the car but it took repeated trips to get the car fixed. He likes the car so much that he will buy a Plaid for himself. This really showcases the dichotomy of shitty QC vs the car itself and owner satisfaction. My friend and his wife were big fans of going with a Tesla in the first place so they were already aware of how bad it could be when you get your car. Nobody should have to deal with what they did on a 100k car. It is inexcusable. Full stop.

Fast forward a few months to now. The car had more issues and is back in the shop. I think the love affair is becoming strained. So whenever I go out to my S, I am always looking to see if mine has developed any of the issues they have had. I just want to go and enjoy it and these issues suck a lot of the fun out of what should be the pleasure of owning the car. YMMV.

 

[Yelobird]

While battery cost isn't insignificant, the cost of an ICE motor, turbo, fuel injection system, fuel tank, etc. and transmission isn't cheap either, and likely is far more than the electric motors Tesla is using. So that offsets some of the battery costs. All you have to do is look at the project margins per vehicle to see that. Their profit margin per car is 30%! Contrast that with an avg. profit margin of 7.5% across all manufacturers.

It is pretty obvious that we are being taken for a ride by our Teslas in more ways than one. Why? Because there is still high enough demand to command the price premium they do. It is clearly obvious by those margins Tesla could add a few luxurious touches and STILL have huge margins.

One of the key differences about Tesla is if it doesn't come standard, you are out of luck. No chance of paying more, even with inflated margins, to get options you want. I totally understand why they do it. At the same time, it limits the consumer and you are stuck with the Henry Ford approach of initially you can have any car color you want as long as it is black.

If you want to bow down and worship everything Elon does, great. I am one of the ones who will be championing more choices, even better design decisions and actually listening to feedback from buyers. I want a good car, not just a battery pack with wheels. I drove the BMW I4 recently. It's a very fine car. In many ways it is much better than my 3. At current pricing, I think the 3 is a better value but if pricing continues to drift upward BMW is a compelling alternative to the 3, especially with the gov't incentives.

I love my Teslas. Call me a fan of the cars but not a fanatic. I am actively watching the market. If something better comes along, I'll definitely look at it. If compelling enough, I'll sell my Tesla(s) and buy it. If I can't get what I want in Tesla, but I can get it with BMW/Porsche/Audi etc. and spend a bit more (or even a lot more) money to get what I really want, then I am not opposed to doing it. The S really ticked almost all my boxes of what I wanted. The 3 was going to basically be a commuter car so wasn't worried as much there. Sort of like the OP, don't see why they couldn't have at least kept the 1 yr. premium connectivity. That was a pretty cheap move given the profit margins.

Are the other Ice manufacturers also building all of the global gas stations?

 

[CapeOne]

All you have to do is look at the project margins per vehicle to see that. Their profit margin per car is 30%! Contrast that with an avg. profit margin of 7.5% across all manufacturers.

When looking at profit margins, it is also important to note that Tesla not only operates as the manufacturer but also as the dealer. Other automakers' profit margins are based just on the manufacturing side.

Those markups that some non-Tesla dealers have been adding to certain models in the past year or so are all profits to those dealers. Tesla has essentially been doing the same thing through their multiple (and significant) sticker price increases but any and all profits from those increases went to Tesla.

That's not to say Tesla's margins still aren't unusually high but Tesla makes money on both the "wholesale" (manufacturing) and "retail" (dealership) sides.

 

[DanDi58]

That's not to say Tesla's margins still aren't unusually high but Tesla makes money on both the "wholesale" (manufacturing) and "retail" (dealership) sides.

And also the fuel....

 

[DayTrippin]

When looking at profit margins, it is also important to note that Tesla not only operates as the manufacturer but also as the dealer. Other automakers' profit margins are based just on the manufacturing side.

Those markups that some non-Tesla dealers have been adding to certain models in the past year or so are all profits to those dealers. Tesla has essentially been doing the same thing through their multiple (and significant) sticker price increases but any and all profits from those increases went to Tesla.

That's not to say Tesla's margins still aren't unusually high but Tesla makes money on both the "wholesale" (manufacturing) and "retail" (dealership) sides.

Valid point but still crazy margins. Until recently the dealer margins weren't high on actual sales unless they do the added dealer markup approach such as $2000 floormats. Not all dealers are gouging customers either. When I was considering a MME before buying my Y, the dealer quoted me retail without any huge markups.

Obviously, Tesla is doing well enough to make Elon even richer than Putin. Can we have ventilated seats in the 3/Y now?

 

[DanDi58]

Valid point but still crazy margins. Until recently the dealer margins weren't high on actual sales unless they do the added dealer markup approach such as $2000 floormats. Not all dealers are gouging customers either. When I was considering a MME before buying my Y, the dealer quoted me retail without any huge markups.

Obviously, Tesla is doing well enough to make Elon even richer than Putin. Can we have ventilated seats in the 3/Y now?

The margins may be 'crazy' but they are not out of sync with other companies like GM and Ford - at least with their most profitable and popular products, SUV's and trucks.

 

[DayTrippin]

The margins may be 'crazy' but they are not out of sync with other companies like GM and Ford - at least with their most profitable and popular products, SUV's and trucks.

Good margins there and a lot of profit made on options that most people would like to buy. I could get 360 surround view in my Ford truck, cooled seats and a host of options I wanted. I think Tesla should do sort of what Honda did, allow choice but by choosing packages rather than individual options. Bundle the most popular options together as a package (or 2). That simplifies production and still gives some choices. I would have gladly paid more to have cooled seats on my Y/3 as an example.

 

[CapeOne]

Good margins there and a lot of profit made on options that most people would like to buy. I could get 360 surround view in my Ford truck, cooled seats and a host of options I wanted. I think Tesla should do sort of what Honda did, allow choice but by choosing packages rather than individual options. Bundle the most popular options together as a package (or 2). That simplifies production and still gives some choices. I would have gladly paid more to have cooled seats on my Y/3 as an example.

In the early years, Tesla used to offer many more individual options but eventually made most things standard. Tesla "packages" are now largely tied to trim level which is a lot like what Honda has long done. The fewer potential variations there are, the easier and cheaper production can be. It also makes it easier to match existing new inventory cars with custom orders. Being able activate or deactivate software options, like FSD and acceleration boost, can help too.

 

[Gway2022]

I just bought a Model Y and an absolute supporter of Tesla but I too am surprised that i won't have built in garage door opener in a +$65K car. I am posting here because this kind of thing doesnt sit well with me. I went through the posts here and there were people dissing the new comers about "why they are surprised? It has been gone since 2019". That is not ok to accept anything and everything they put infront of you and accept as is. People are posting here because it is outrageous to not have it built in at this point. In addition, when it was removed people were saying it wasnt used so they took it out to save cost... ok I understand that, but they didnt lower the cars' price by that much. They just took it out. As much as, I like most things they are doing and support their fight against the big oil till the end, things like these makes me uneasy.

 

[Knightshade]

What is outrageous is you spent 65k on a car only to be surprised what does and does not come in it.

Why it was removed has been explained exhaustively.

Homelink requires you to pay a license fee for every car their hardware is in. Especially since some significant % of cars made don't need or use it, it's business dumb to put them in every car rather than offer them optionally to only those who need it.

If your answer is "But X legacy car company continues to do the stupid thing" nobody will disagree with you but that might not be making the point you think it is.



Apart from that- the car INCLUDES a bunch of stuff that is EXTRA COST OPTIONS on other comparable vehicles.

For example comparable BMWs (I just checked a 340xi, most comparable to the LR AWD Model 3 as an example)- require added-cost packages to get heated rear seats and a heated wheel and wireless phone charging and remote start via an app- things that all come by default on the Tesla.

EVERY car maker has to decide which things make sense as options, and which things make sense to include.

 

[raptor5244]

I just bought a Model Y and an absolute supporter of Tesla but I too am surprised that i won't have built in garage door opener in a +$65K car. I am posting here because this kind of thing doesnt sit well with me. I went through the posts here and there were people dissing the new comers about "why they are surprised? It has been gone since 2019". That is not ok to accept anything and everything they put infront of you and accept as is. People are posting here because it is outrageous to not have it built in at this point. In addition, when it was removed people were saying it wasnt used so they took it out to save cost... ok I understand that, but they didnt lower the cars' price by that much. They just took it out. As much as, I like most things they are doing and support their fight against the big oil till the end, things like these makes me uneasy.

It is annoying for sure but Homelink is starting to disappear from other manufacturers models as well. The trend is toward garage door openers that are WiFi enable so you can open them via an app on the phone or even use voice commands. Otherwise grab the trusty opener and clip it to the visor or Velcro it to the back of the display.

 

[jjrandorin]

HOW CHEAP HAS TESLA GOTTEN?

I am an owner of a Model S. It is expensive and considered a luxury car. It came with everything you needed. Then I recenty purchased a Model Y. Still an expensive car but guess what? They have now gutted some of the options that you expect from a luxury car.
No 240V 50 AMP plug adapter
No garage door opener
None of these services are included without a fee: Navigation, Live Traffic Visualization, Satellite-View Maps, Video Streaming, Caraoke, Music Streaming, Internet Browser
No Summon

Cool feature: Wireless smart phone charger

I just bought a Model Y and an absolute supporter of Tesla but I too am surprised that i won't have built in garage door opener in a +$65K car. I am posting here because this kind of thing doesnt sit well with me. I went through the posts here and there were people dissing the new comers about "why they are surprised? It has been gone since 2019". That is not ok to accept anything and everything they put infront of you and accept as is. People are posting here because it is outrageous to not have it built in at this point. In addition, when it was removed people were saying it wasnt used so they took it out to save cost... ok I understand that, but they didnt lower the cars' price by that much. They just took it out. As much as, I like most things they are doing and support their fight against the big oil till the end, things like these makes me uneasy.

I am almost positive that both of these posts are troll posts. The OP of this thread for sure. New account, 1 post, never even logged in after their post to see if anyone responded. There are a lot more of these recently for some reason.

People are so eager to discuss this stuff, they dont care if the post itself is real or not.

This second post I quoted, same thing, although the account was just created yesterday (along with the post and log off). I am fairly certain people will see that account not log back on as well.

 

[thinktwice]

I just bought a Model Y and an absolute supporter of Tesla but I too am surprised that i won't have built in garage door opener in a +$65K car. I am posting here because this kind of thing doesnt sit well with me. I went through the posts here and there were people dissing the new comers about "why they are surprised? It has been gone since 2019". That is not ok to accept anything and everything they put infront of you and accept as is. People are posting here because it is outrageous to not have it built in at this point. In addition, when it was removed people were saying it wasnt used so they took it out to save cost... ok I understand that, but they didnt lower the cars' price by that much. They just took it out. As much as, I like most things they are doing and support their fight against the big oil till the end, things like these makes me uneasy.

You paid $65k for a car and are fretting over an additional $325 to add Homelink? Be upset if they didn't offer the option at all.

 

[Resist]

You paid $65k for a car and are fretting over an additional $325 to add Homelink? Be upset if they didn't offer the option at all.

Kind of annoying when people replay like this. Just because someone paid $65k for a car, doesn't mean they want to spend extra for features that used to be included. Everyone has a limit to their expenses. But I guess you like people taking money out of your pocket, for no reason.