Model Y 2170 vs 4680

[Skipcam]

Tesla announced new 4680 cells will only be available with MY standard range with 278 min range and new structural front & rear castings. What about those of us that have orders in for MYLR? I assume we would still get 2170 batteries but depending on whether the build comes from Fremont or Austin would we still get new F/R single castings Or the old one?

 

[E90alex]

There’s no way to tell. Most likely 2170 since 4680 production isn’t at enough capacity yet. 2170 from Austin would still keep old structure I believe.

Even if they are making 4680 Long range models, they will be mixed in with the rest of the 2170 long range cars coming off the factory lines and you have no way to tell or choose what you get.

 

[Skipcam]

i would be very unhappy if, after waiting 11 months I am expected to pay top dollar for a car I could have bought in 2019 (cheaper!). The reason I ordered the car when I did was to take advantage of the new technologies being touted. If the concept is they want me to pay top dollar after that long a wait, and won’t tell me what I am buying, I’m out! I would accept one with 2170 batteries and new F/R castings, or the maybe same with the 4680 Standard range at my old price, but not old body casting, old batteries they’re trying to dump At top dollar.

 

[Ogre]

i would be very unhappy if, after waiting 11 months I am expected to pay top dollar for a car I could have bought in 2019 (cheaper!). The reason I ordered the car when I did was to take advantage of the new technologies being touted. If the concept is they want me to pay top dollar after that long a wait, and won’t tell me what I am buying, I’m out! I would accept one with 2170 batteries and new F/R castings, or the maybe same with the 4680 Standard range at my old price, but not old body casting, old batteries they’re trying to dump At top dollar.

It takes 9-12 months for a new production line to ramp up. If Tesla shut down their production of 2170 based Model Ys right now, their sales would drop from 5,000 cars a week to 250 cars/ week.

Not sure what made you think ordering any random Model Y would get you the 4680 cells, but that was never going to work and Tesla never suggested as much. You bought into some wrong assumptions.

 

[DanDi58]

Take a spin around the forum, lots of discussion about this topic already.

 

[systemr]

you order your car and take your chances, frustrating i know as I had to reject a car to get the new AMD MCU. but better than that guy who crashed while on autopilot, didn't have insurance and asked if tesla would cover the repairs...

 

[Skipcam]

It takes 9-12 months for a new production line to ramp up. If Tesla shut down their production of 2170 based Model Ys right now, their sales would drop from 5,000 cars a week to 250 cars/ week.

Not sure what made you think ordering any random Model Y would get you the 4680 cells, but that was never going to work and Tesla never suggested as much. You bought into some wrong assumptions.

what made my do it was $250 nonreundable dollars. I thought that was better than the 1K I plopped down with an 11 month wait for the original Model 3, which I still have. But at least they told me exactly what I was buying before I gave them the money. And I could opt out at the last minute and get my entire 1K back immediately. And say what you want about 9-12 months to ramp up but they are taking orders for model Y AWD SR with 4680 batteries in less than that window. So I’ll lose my $250 bucks rather than pay for a car with VIN that will not tell me what is is made of. Pot luck for 65K.

 

[Ogre]

what made my do it was $250 nonreundable dollars. I thought that was better than the 1K I plopped down with an 11 month wait for the original Model 3, which I still have. And say what you want about 9-12 months to ramp up but they are taking orders for model Y AWD SR with 4680 batteries in less than that window. So I’ll lose my $250 bucks.

Tesla is going to be selling 2170 based Model Ys for at least the rest of this year, very likely well into next year. They’ve never suggested otherwise.

I also want a Model Y with the 4680 cells. I’ve been reading various threads about people trying to angle one, but wasn’t willing to pull the trigger unless I knew I would actually get the 4680.

We still don’t know how they are going to start deliveries on these. They might ask people who have the Model Y LR if they want to switch configurations. We just don’t know yet. Right now you still can’t order one.

 

[E90alex]

i would be very unhappy if, after waiting 11 months I am expected to pay top dollar for a car I could have bought in 2019 (cheaper!). The reason I ordered the car when I did was to take advantage of the new technologies being touted. If the concept is they want me to pay top dollar after that long a wait, and won’t tell me what I am buying, I’m out! I would accept one with 2170 batteries and new F/R castings, or the maybe same with the 4680 Standard range at my old price, but not old body casting, old batteries they’re trying to dump At top dollar.

Then cancel your order until they are using 100% 4680 cells. Probably won’t be for a few years. Or you might be able to change your configuration to the SR once that goes live.

We have still yet to see if 4680 and one piece casting provides any real material benefit to the end user. Everyone seems to be hyping it up as if it’s going to be revolutionary.

It’s more for Teslas own benefit to reduce cost and complexity than it is to provide material improvements in the real world. With a mix of 2170 and 4680 cars being produced at the same time for the same market, they will likely just software limit any advantages 4680 cells might have (if any) so that both cars will perform identically.

 

[Ogre]

We have still yet to see if 4680 and one piece casting provides any real material benefit to the end user. Everyone seems to be hyping it up as if it’s going to be revolutionary.

From the sounds of it, Tesla is charging $59k for the new car which has 50 miles less range than the $63k Model Y LR.

That’s quite the premium for access to the new platform.

 

[E90alex]

From the sounds of it, Tesla is charging $59k for the new car which has 50 miles less range than the $63k Model Y LR.

That’s quite the premium for access to the new platform.

People will sell their first born to get a car with the almighty supreme 4680 cells, so Tesla doesn’t have to worry about people paying for the privilege

 

[terranx]

i would be very unhappy if, after waiting 11 months I am expected to pay top dollar for a car I could have bought in 2019 (cheaper!). The reason I ordered the car when I did was to take advantage of the new technologies being touted. If the concept is they want me to pay top dollar after that long a wait, and won’t tell me what I am buying, I’m out! I would accept one with 2170 batteries and new F/R castings, or the maybe same with the 4680 Standard range at my old price, but not old body casting, old batteries they’re trying to dump At top dollar.

It's a pretty big leap to assume the new stuff is inherently superior. Tesla's primary purpose in switching to the structural battery, front/rear castings, and 4680 is cost savings. The data we do have about the 279 mile model should already be enough to realize that there isn't really any weight savings and that there won't be any sort of range increase.

 

[E90alex]

Also for the 4680 stans…the top dog insane accelerating S/X Paid still are using the “old” and “inferior” 18650 cells and not even the 2170.

 

[Ogre]

It's a pretty big leap to assume the new stuff is inherently superior. Tesla's primary purpose in switching to the structural battery, front/rear castings, and 4680 is cost savings. The data we do have about the 279 mile model should already be enough to realize that there isn't really any weight savings and that there won't be any sort of range increase.

This is the first gen 4680 cell. I’m sure as they roll it out it’ll get more and more efficient. Right now it’s just getting it’s legs underneath it.

In 2 years they will move the whole line over and it’ll kick butt. Just takes a little time.

 

[Dennisis]

From what I've read cost savings is the primary driver as Elon doesn't see any need to increase range. "Riding around with a all the time with a large tank of gas" or to that effect is what he stated - he doesn't see the sense in it.

 

[tpoltron]

Around 6 years ago the Model S and X switched cell chemistry and pack configuration to go from 85 to 90 labels. After a few years many people on these forums think the 85 packs are holding up better, when many sought out the 90. Time will tell on the 4680.

 

[muti277]

what most people don't realize is the type of battery like 2170 or 4680 is just the size of individual cells but what really makes a difference is the battery chemistry which can change whenever Tesla decides. New Model S and X might still be using the old 18650 cells but the chemistry is very similar to the 2170 and 4680. The real advantage of 4680 should be ability to use those cells for the structure of the car which in theory should reduce the weight, complexity and cost of the car. However since only Tesla employees currently got those new cars we don't have any details on them. It also doesn't necessarily mean that Tesla will pass on those cost savings to the customer especially in todays climate of the demand far outpacing the production capacity. Once that will change then most likely the prices will start dropping.
If you order your car today most likely it will be the current 2170 model from Fremont, MIT MY should show up soon as the Standard Range so if absolutely need to have 4680 I suggest to wait until it shows up as an option for regular customers and if you have a current order I'm sure they will allow you to switch but I doubt they will let you keep the price from last year if that is your current order.
My personal thought is 4680 has the potential to make the car better in many ways but it might take several revisions to get there so with 2170 cells you know what you are getting. But with current 4680 you will be just another beta tester and that means don't be surprised if these cars will end up with unforeseen issues.

 

[Suns]

There’s nothing really to talk about until it actually comes out. No one knows anything

 

[ScoobyDoo82]

i would be very unhappy if, after waiting 11 months I am expected to pay top dollar for a car I could have bought in 2019 (cheaper!). The reason I ordered the car when I did was to take advantage of the new technologies being touted. If the concept is they want me to pay top dollar after that long a wait, and won’t tell me what I am buying, I’m out! I would accept one with 2170 batteries and new F/R castings, or the maybe same with the 4680 Standard range at my old price, but not old body casting, old batteries they’re trying to dump At top dollar.

With all due respect, if you could have purchased the car back in 2019 you WOULD have. Expecting Tesla to give you the same values of those the “early adopters” got is a stretch. For what it’s worth, the “top dollar” cars today are a chasm world better. Even with 2170’s the car has made massive leaps and bounds over the years. Today’s money for today’s Tesla is almost the same (if not better) in value of the smaller amount for 2019’s cars. It’s not a direct apples to apples comparison but I think you can get where I’m coming from.

The internet is at your full disposal. Some good research would have revealed that one expecting a Tesla over the past 12 months would not guarantee the “new promised” tech. You can ask prospective EDD holders of the new Model X, or any CyberTruck reserve holder, any new Roadster reservation holder etc… need I mention Semi? None of these folks are expecting their product on a guaranteed calendar date - not do they know what to expect as far as features. Tesla’s features change (for better or worse) like the wind.

It seems to me that with the current thought process you’ve demonstrated that once you finally take delivery that you will be destined for a long road of disappointment. Lol, just wait until you actually need to get someone from Tesla on the phone or even worse, set up a service appointment. Yikes.

 

[thesmokingman]

There’s nothing really to talk about until it actually comes out. No one knows anything

Actually we do know a bit about the 4680s from the earnings call. The 4680s will net a 15% advantage when the efficiency is at its peak but right now it's not there yet. Elon said end of year or 2023 the 4680s will be scaled up. Right now they're being produced but they're not at the performance level they are want it to be at.

To the rest, you don't want 4680s right now. Next year when they are peaked, then yes yes yes but right now, nooo.