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Discussion in 'Model Y' started by Ty_McMahan, Jun 4, 2019.
How could one possibly want to drive a car with more than two seats and a roof?!
My 2013 Nissan leaf has heated steering wheel. It does not make it a luxury car. No single feature can decide a car class. The whole package does.
Opinions are like assholes, and "luxury" is subjective.
Back on topic: Check my signature.
I think everyone understands that. The point being, how do you make a luxury vehicle without the OPTION of a heated steering wheel?
My wife and I both have poor circulation and heated steering wheels were a must-have for us. That is, until my son pointed out how easy it is to have the whole car warmed up inside before you get in. We bought an M3 and love it.
Depends were in California. The mountains go as high as 14,000 feet and valley's as low as -200 feet. Big state, 900 miles long, 200 miles wide. 15% of US population. You can go ski in the morning and hang out on the beach after lunch. We just had 2 feet of snow in the Tahoe area 2 weeks ago, so 4 wheel is a useful even in May/June.
Also, there are more heating/cooling options in EVs. You can turn on the heater while you are in your house or at work with the app. Then we you get in the car it's interior is a balmy 75 degrees. And you can do this if the car is in an interior space like a garage since their is no exhaust to kill you. And even if you forget to pre-heat the interior, Teslas get warm really quick. My heater is blowing warm air by the time I back it out of the driveway. One of the advantages of having a dedicated heater instead of one based on excess engine heat.
You didn’t address the actual argument. You stated that the Model 3 cannot be a luxury car because it’s sold without a heated steering wheel. The poster you replied to pointed out that that argument would imply that their Lexus and BMW cars are also not luxury cars(something obviously false). Whether or not California is a microcosm has nothing to do with that.
You clearly missed the point. The Lexus and BMW have the option of ordering a heated steering wheel. Model 3 does not.
Sophomoric argument. Got anything more? Look. There’s a list of things Tesla has that Lexus and BMW don’t. And vica versa. Luxury is defined as “more than you actually need”. As in luxury vs necessity. What more is irrelevant. We don’t “need” heated steering wheel. Nor do we “need” summon. Yet either can be bought as an option on one car or another. Let’s just live with the fact that author of article that is topic of this thread used an existing ranking of “luxury” car sales. He neither named nor created it.
Can we stop this silly debate over what constitutes luxury?
Ah, if we’re discussing options, it’s even more clear cut. How many BMW/Mercedes/etc have an option allowing the car to handle all driving for you on the freeway? Or an automatic valet option where the car will drive over and pick you up in a parking lot(note that this is available for some Model 3 owners currently)? I’d say either is far more of a luxury feature than a heated steering wheel.
And that’s not even getting into standard features the others can’t match at any level(say, Dog Mode, Sentry Mode, web browsing, etc)
Luxury often depends on your own experiences.
If you are used to driving a 10 year VW Beatle, then the Model 3 is Luxury. If you are used to driving a Rolls Royce Phantom, then perhaps not so much.
To me, it has lots of luxury features, drives smoothly and quietly. Has a powerful motor and good performance and handling. Has nice interior and good electronics, along with driver assistance features. Luxury to me.
This thread got off-topic fast. I also want a Y. The 3 is hard for me to get in and out of, with a bad knee. And the door opening is too low! But I wanted the driving aids NOW!
I also don't think the 3 is a luxury car. It starts at a luxury price, but it's half the cost of their other cars. And they cut a lot of corners. I find the road noise annoying. Much louder than my Leaf was. Maybe the flat floor, acting like a drumhead?
But then, I don't see my Lexus RX as luxury. Like Lexus, maybe the Tesla NAME is luxury? Not all the models are.
I have a model 3. Beats the devil out of the BMW328I my wife drives. That's in all aspects except one, suspension. The Model 3 does give you more road feel than you might wish for, especially in our little town with plentiful potholes..
Aside from all the talk about what it is, the biggest problem with Model Y is range and range always goes together with charging rates.
For a car that hits real volumes in 2021, offering 230 and 300 miles is far too little. The base model might be one of the shortest range vehicles on the market by 2021. They need at least 15% more range and to update Model 3 by then too.
You don't get from 1% market share for BEV to 100% without trying much harder when it comes to charging rates plus range. With 230 miles you keep ICE alive to 2050. If Tesla can't substantially increase range every 2-3 years and push charging rates forward even faster, EV adoption stalls or someone else takes the lead. It wouldn't even cost much to increase range by 15% and in all fairness, 264 and 345 miles would be a bit thin, get it to 300 and 400 miles and folks that don't yet own an EV might get excited.
Real mass market would be a Model Y that's 10% smaller on all axis, sold as a sedan at $25k with 300+ miles of range in 2022. That's what gets them China , Europe and all else.
Tesla has gone step-wise into market. Y will be probably 2x the 3 volumes. They are not ready for corolla volumes with Y. Nor is the cost of technology ready for corolla volumes. That’s probably 2025. However... not clear Tesla is even gunning for that. There’s been little jabber from Tesla about a cheaper car. Much more about autonomous car sharing. I suspect they’d prefer to grow that market than go all out for low price volume.
It is too early to talk about someone else “winning” in EV price/volume. Unless the Chinese manufacturers get a more global footprint, as they are the only ones at same scale as Tesla. Maybe VW will get there quickly, but far too early to assess.
Cost of a car? OR cost of transportation?
Cost per mile? OR time per mile? (soul killing traffic congestion)
efficiency: electric vs ICE; the winner is obvious
private cars that get used 2 hours/day or robotaxis that get used 8 -16 hours a day?
transportation: bus routes vs taxis vs private car (bike or walk considered?)
Aren't these some of the disruptions that may well happen?
walk, bike, bus, tram, car, taxis, train, plane, hyperloop - you decide where to spend your time & money
suggest: Tony Seba: Clean Disruption - Energy & Transportation
You keep saying “we” as if that does not include me and many other buyers that expect more from the segment based on price point.
I agree the author did not create or name the class but they are misrepresenting the Model 3 as belonging to it.
Relevant to this thread:
Technique #3 – ‘TOPIC DILUTION’
Topic dilution is not only effective in forum sliding it is also very useful in keeping the forum readers on unrelated and non-productive issues. This is a critical and useful technique to cause a ‘RESOURCE BURN.’ By implementing continual and non-related postings that distract and disrupt ... the forum readers they are more effectively stopped from anything of any real productivity. If the intensity of gradual dilution is intense enough, the readers will effectively stop researching and simply slip into a ‘gossip mode.’ In this state they can be more easily misdirected away from facts towards uninformed conjecture and opinion. ....
The Gentleman’s Guide To Forum Disruption - The Big Picture
How often would you use the car's full range in one day? Don't think ICE vehicle operations with gas station fillups once a week. Think cell phone operation. Where you use it during the day and charge it ever night while you sleep. And when you get in every morning it is "full".
I was really worried about this when I got my Model X 75D with "only" 200 miles of range. After a year I can say it is a complete non issue. Because I get up and have about 200 miles of range every morning. I drive 30-60 miles in a day and then charge it back up to 200 miles of range while I sleep.
FWIW the average US commute per day is around 50 miles, so I am right in the sweet spot with millions of other drivers.
I pretty much agree. It's the biggest reason I bought a 75D model S instead of a 100D. That being said I do make road trips often enough that some extra range would be nice.