Model Y full charge range

[silverstoned83]

Has anyone considered the fact that Tesla always is conservative initially with their BMS parameters to preserve the health of the pack? These parameters are adjusted as more data is collected from the fleet. Eventually they unlock more performance by tuning the BMS to be less conservative after having collected enough data to prove that more potential can safely be unlocked without sacrificing longevity. This is a long process and I’m sure they’re still collecting this data.

 

[MY-Y]

I'm not sure how a long trip helps assess battery health. There are so many variables with a trip. I charged from 4% to 100% recently. The BMS reported that 66.27 kWh went into the battery. This equates to 69 kWh, which is the BMS estimated capacity. Perhaps the 3.2 kWh buffer (also reported by the BMS) isn't factored into this and my capacity is really 72.7 kWh.

 

[silverstoned83]

I'm not sure how a long trip helps assess battery health. There are so many variables with a trip. I charged from 4% to 100% recently. The BMS reported that 66.27 kWh went into the battery. This equates to 69 kWh, which is the BMS estimated capacity. Perhaps the 3.2 kWh buffer (also reported by the BMS) isn't factored into this and my capacity is really 72.7 kWh.

Its simple. You’re describing how much energy the BMS sees.. I’m talking about how much actual energy the BMS has access to. Your evaluation is an assumption.

Bjorn’s approach removes all assumptions and recognizes the limitations of the BMS when it comes to understanding the true capacity.

 

[whisperingshad]

To be honest, like a gas car, the range estimate on a full charge/or tank of gas, is never accurate.

 

[BreatheEasier]

Or Elon could simply add a "Battery Health" feature like Apple did in IOS. But then again, that would add too much transparency for the consumer.

My bet is that all EVs have some % of first-year degradation, but it is going to be very difficult to tell using the BMS. I charge a about 4 of times a month to 100% for long trips (175+ miles one-way), and 2 of those times are at 250kW Superchargers. My max range fluctuates between 308 and 318 miles . Lifetime avg. is 257 Wh/Mi. Weather and my driving style across the number of trips before I charge to 100% has the greatest impact on what is displayed as max range at 100%.

FWIW, I've been hanging out in the Mach-E forums, and their BMS is so amazingly conservative! Owners are freaking out after one week of ownership, and their estimated range at 100% charge with the extended batttery shows 237 miles vs. the EPA estimate of 270. Industry tests are showing that the Mach-E for the most part can exceed its EPA ratings (which Tesla never does), yet their Mach-Es are showing them the opposite.

 

[silverstoned83]

Or Elon could simply add a "Battery Health" feature like Apple did in IOS. But then again, that would add too much transparency for the consumer.

My bet is that all EVs have some % of first-year degradation, but it is going to be very difficult to tell using the BMS. I charge a about 4 of times a month to 100% for long trips (175+ miles one-way), and 2 of those times are at 250kW Superchargers. My max range fluctuates between 308 and 318 miles . Lifetime avg. is 257 Wh/Mi. Weather and my driving style across the number of trips before I charge to 100% has the greatest impact on what is displayed as max range at 100%.

FWIW, I've been hanging out in the Mach-E forums, and their BMS is so amazingly conservative! Owners are freaking out after one week of ownership, and their estimated range at 100% charge with the extended batttery shows 237 miles vs. the EPA estimate of 270. Industry tests are showing that the Mach-E for the most part can exceed its EPA ratings (which Tesla never does), yet their Mach-Es are showing them the opposite.

All lithium batteries definitely experience a small, but sharp, drop in capacity when new. After a short while, the rate of this drop in capacity plateaus. The outside factors that can influence this rate are well understood and the BMS is equipped to avoid these situations. This is why there is little to no chance that there are so many examples of premature degradation, as many on this thread are suggesting.

Just for the heck of it, I decided to switch over to distance on my display settings a moment ago, and found the estimated full charge range to be 307. I then plugged it in to charge and checked on it a few moments later and found it at 309. Then it went to 313. For this to vary by almost 2% in just a matter of 30 minutes during a charge session tells me that the BMS doesn’t know exactly how much energy it has to work with. This is with 5,195 miles on the clock, cycling the battery between 40-60% with very few supercharge sessions, exposure to temps between 50-60 deg. for most of its life so far in the garage.

For this reason, you can’t use the energy it reports to understand degredation since this requires a very precise/accurate test of the true capacity using Wh/mi values, distance traveled using GPS, and factoring in the % error in distance traveled that the car believes, which impacts the true consumption and capacity values. This should put it into perspective regarding just how much is involved to figure out the true remaining capacity.

 

[frankvb]

Has anyone considered the fact that Tesla always is conservative initially with their BMS parameters to preserve the health of the pack? These parameters are adjusted as more data is collected from the fleet. Eventually they unlock more performance by tuning the BMS to be less conservative after having collected enough data to prove that more potential can safely be unlocked without sacrificing longevity. This is a long process and I’m sure they’re still collecting this data.

Absolutely, but since the Y (LR) battery pack has been in the model 3 for many years, you'd think they have that one figured out by now.

 

[Exelion]

Or Elon could simply add a "Battery Health" feature like Apple did in IOS. But then again, that would add too much transparency for the consumer.

The only thing this would add are rants, complaints, and warranty claims about how people’s batteries are supposed to be X when it shows Y. And even if they had this, how accurate it would it be? The same accuracy as what we see now, just in a different indicator.

Pretty sure Tesla is fully capable and aware of this ability and chosen NOT to do it for fear of increased backlash.

 

[juli1]

8,000 miles on it and will charge around 312 miles.

 

[whisperingshad]

SC to pretty much full yesterday morning.

 

[silverstoned83]

SC to pretty much full yesterday morning.

You must have one of those one in a million packs that actually reaches advertised values.

In my opinion, this estimate is related to the resulting cell temperature at the end of a supercharge and the low miles on the odometer (best state of battery capacity calibration is at delivery). Temperature does impact SoC, both at high and low temperatures, which is represented by the full charge capacity that the BMS reports.

 

[ACRIB]

Got our new MY LR in Socal around March 2021. The first time I fully charge at home it gave me 313miles at 100%. I tried charging it at supercharger
to 100% just to see if there is a difference but still got 313 miles at 100%. Is there anybody else having this problem. Tesla claims maximum range of
326 miles at 100% charged.

 

[Fourdoor]

I have a question for those that are concerned about battery degredation.. When was the last time you went on a trip that was over 200 miles one way starting from a full charge?

I do it all the time in my Bolt EV... one of the reasons I am getting a Y is for the longer range, and faster charging speed, because I am a statistical outlier who actually does frequent road trips. That was curbed a bit due to the coof, but I probably did more long distance driving in 2020 than most people do in a "normal" year. One of the reasons I laugh when people say that there isn't any charging infrastructure for non-Tesla EV's is my own experience road tripping all the time over the past 3 years of EV ownership. Road tripping a non-Tesla is not that hard... but it IS a pain in the ass compared to road tripping in a Tesla.

My perspective on "rated range" vs Guess O meter"... I hate both! I want a readout in available kWh in the battery, but the closest we come to that is a %SOC display. In any given situation I know how many miles per kWh I get in the Bolt (and I will develop the same knowledge in wh/mile when I start driving the Y) so I can rapidly figure out my "real world" range. For example, if I am driving 85 mph in Texas in the Bolt in clear summer weather I will use an estimate of 2.7 miles per kWh (370 wh/mile), if I charged to 66% at the last CCS station that means I have a range of a bit over 100 miles before I need to stop at another CCS station.

With the longer range and faster charging of the Y I will probably never develop the same "feel" for what the car is doing... it will not be as necessary.

Keith

 

[whisperingshad]

Got our new MY LR in Socal around March 2021. The first time I fully charge at home it gave me 313miles at 100%. I tried charging it at supercharger
to 100% just to see if there is a difference but still got 313 miles at 100%. Is there anybody else having this problem. Tesla claims maximum range of
326 miles at 100% charged.

I SC last night up to 326. Just under 4k miles and 6 weeks in.

 

[Eric9610]

So I have 6,100 miles on my 21 MYLR and I am showing a full charge of 301 now… I have gone from 327 at new to 316 at 4k miles to now 301. I don‘t drive the car hard but at this rate I may see below 300miles on a full charge by EOY.

 

[Mark2018s]

At this rate you will have zero range by Valentine's Day.

Something is obviously wrong, sorry I cant help.

 

[kishkaru]

I charged to 100% SoC 2-3 times in the first month when I first got my car (Dec 2020). It always charged up to 326 miles at 100% SoC:

Today, after seeing this thread, I charged to 100% SoC for the first time since then.
Now, 5.5 months later, and 3300 mi on car, it's only charging to 313 miles at 100% SoC:

Charging data for session above:

Legend:
Yellow = power (kW)
Red = voltage (V)
Green = SoC (%)
Orange = range (mi)

It hit 100% and was dancing on/off even 25 mins after it it 100%. I got impatient and left the supercharger.

Car is currently software v.2021.4.18. Did a recent software update in the last few months take away the 13 miles?
Or is there battery degradation after only 3300 mi (4% degradation)? I'm using TeslaMate to record metrics, and its Projected Range is also 311-313 miles.
I have my display turned to SoC % permanently, so I never pay attention to the rated miles (except during the 2 tests above).

 

[Eric9610]

I have a friend who got his car 3 weeks before I did and he is also showing on full charge in the low 300 miles. I hope it maintains this level… I have also noticed that usage has increased significantly with no change to driving style. On trips that used 30miles of displayed range it now shows using 45, all this happened after the update to 2021.4.18

 

[whisperingshad]

Was 328 when i unplugged

 

[tkizzy]

There’s a good post here showing how the bms is calibrated over time with multiple soc And it being asleep then. basically this is an estimate that can be calibrated.