Model Y heating - slow

[TrevTremaine]

Anyone else noticing that when the temperature is below freezing that the heater takes a lot longer to warm the car? This morning it took close to 30 minutes before the climate even approached the right level (while also still attached on the charger). Comparatively, my Model S with resistance heating took about 3-4 minutes to get to the cabin heated. The outside temperature is -9C.

I'm assuming a lot of it's due to the heat pump. If so, while it's good for saving energy, it's not so good to keep you warm once the temperature plummets. I guess no sign of a dual heating system (heat pump and resistance heating).

Any idea if this might be a software issue and a pending release might improve it?

 

[michaelnorbert]

I'm in Ottawa and I'm seeing < 10 minutes to go from -8 to 20. There are threads with people having issues with heat. Check those out.

 

[jcanoe]

Anyone else noticing that when the temperature is below freezing that the heater takes a lot longer to warm the car? This morning it took close to 30 minutes before the climate even approached the right level (while also still attached on the charger). Comparatively, my Model S with resistance heating took about 3-4 minutes to get to the cabin heated. The outside temperature is -9C.

I'm assuming a lot of it's due to the heat pump. If so, while it's good for saving energy, it's not so good to keep you warm once the temperature plummets. I guess no sign of a dual heating system (heat pump and resistance heating).

Any idea if this might be a software issue and a pending release might improve it?

When you precondition the Tesla using the Tesla app, if you tap the windshield defroster icon in the lower right corner of the Climate Control screen the icon will change from white to red. This will set the cabin temperature to Hi and also set the vents for maximum defrost. If you set a Driver Profile when you enter the Tesla and start to drive the climate control will automatically be set to your personal temperature preference.

 

[pt19713]

If you're not pre-conditioning it, that's why it's taking awhile. If you hop right in, there's no heat to pull from since the batteries are cold and the motors are cold. If you pre-condition for at least 15 minutes, the front motor should be around 190F and the rear motor around 160F. This will help raise the battery pack roughly 17F in temps around freezing. I can post up more numbers and graphs from a recent preconditioning test I did 2 days ago.

 

[TrevTremaine]

If you're not pre-conditioning it, that's why it's taking awhile. If you hop right in, there's no heat to pull from since the batteries are cold and the motors are cold. If you pre-condition for at least 15 minutes, the front motor should be around 190F and the rear motor around 160F. This will help raise the battery pack roughly 17F in temps around freezing. I can post up more numbers and graphs from a recent preconditioning test I did 2 days ago.

As stated, it was pre-conditioning for a full 30 minutes attached to the charger (40amp/240V). The heat provided was slow to come up. I double-checked that the heat system was set to "Auto" so it could adjust settings fully as well.

I would be interested to see the number and such although it would be anecdotal for me. Thank you.

 

[mswlogo]

If you're not pre-conditioning it, that's why it's taking awhile. If you hop right in, there's no heat to pull from since the batteries are cold and the motors are cold. If you pre-condition for at least 15 minutes, the front motor should be around 190F and the rear motor around 160F. This will help raise the battery pack roughly 17F in temps around freezing. I can post up more numbers and graphs from a recent preconditioning test I did 2 days ago.

Point is with my older Model 3 I could jump right in, no preconditioning and be comfortable in 2-3 minutes.

 

[pt19713]

As stated, it was pre-conditioning for a full 30 minutes attached to the charger (40amp/240V). The heat provided was slow to come up. I double-checked that the heat system was set to "Auto" so it could adjust settings fully as well.

I would be interested to see the number and such although it would be anecdotal for me. Thank you.

Original poster might have an issue with the heat pump or something in the HVAC system if it's not warm after 30 minutes inside the car. There have been reports of other Y owners with similar issues.

Here's the information since it might help others learn the pre-conditioning process.

Attached is a graph to show an 18 minute pre-condition. Sorry for the low quality, I have to figure out how to get a decent image since it seems the Snipping Tool I'm using is causing some resolution loss.

* Outside temperature 26F, temperature inside my garage 47F, as shown in green.
* Front Stator motor started at 62F, shown in blue.
* Rear Stator Motor started at 62F, shown in pink.
* Battery inlet temp started at 51F, shown in red.
* Cell Temp Mid (battery pack) started at 52F, shown in black.

Right around the 1 minute mark you can see the red line (battery inlet temp) drop. What's happening is the Octovalve directing more of the heat to to the heat pump to heat up the cabin. My Y gets warm fairly quickly, usually within 5 minutes.

You can see the front and rear motors quickly warming up with the front motor being warmer while the vehicle is parked. The highest I've seen the front motor get is 210F. What's happening is the refrigerant is passing by the motors and the heat is picked up via conduction. The Octovalve is then distributing the refrigerant, as needed, so initially some of the heat is sent to the heat pump to warm the cabin, and then routed to the battery pack. As long as the battery inlet temp is greater than the battery pack temp, the battery pack will warm up. The reverse is true, if the inlet temp is lower than the pack temp, the battery will go down in temp.
After 18 minutes:
* Front Stator motor started at 62F, finished at 190F
* Rear Stator Motor started at 62F, finished at 162F
* Battery inlet temp started at 51F, finished at 75F
* Cell Temp Mid (battery pack) started at 52F, finished at 69F

 

[pt19713]

Point is with my older Model 3 I could jump right in, no preconditioning and be comfortable in 2-3 minutes.

The Y, the new Model 3, and any gas vehicle with a heat pump has the same challenges in cold weather. The heat has to come from somewhere for the heat pump to warm the cabin. It's just something you'll have to adjust to, or make better use of the level 3 on the seat warmer. The car just won't be instantly warm like any of the previous Teslas with the heated filament.

 

[mswlogo]

The Y, the new Model 3, and any gas vehicle with a heat pump has the same challenges in cold weather. The heat has to come from somewhere for the heat pump to warm the cabin. It's just something you'll have to adjust to, or make better use of the level 3 on the seat warmer. The car just won't be instantly warm like any of the previous Teslas with the heated filament.

Seems there is a little disagreement on the cost of the heat pump. But I agree it will take longer. But like what was mentioned a hybrid would be nice if it’s that long. With no heated steering wheel I think a non hybrid heat pump would stink. It would really stink if your windows are frozen.

Maybe all heat pump Tesla’s have a hidden heated wheel that will enable in soon.

Even my ICE vehicle was a hybrid that had a resistive heater until the engine warmed up. And a heated wheel.

 

[Camerontlc]

There are major heating issues in the model y. I purchased mine on 12/30/2020 two days later on a long trip heat went out. Had to stop and reboot worked fine for a day then same thing again and again. Has been in service for a week they ordered heat sensor part below and I pick up this morning. Will update of this solves the problem.

Parts Outstanding

1. PT Sensor, High Pressure
   Part #: 1510047-00-B
   Ship Date: January 8, 2021
   Scheduled Delivery: January 11, 2021

 

[Brian-MS90D]

This post has been informative because for some reason I just assumed that the Y had the traditional resistance heating (to get things going) and heat pump (for long term efficiency). One of my (many) favorite things about my former S was the instant and high quality heat. I am really going to miss that on my yet to be built Y (been waiting forever for the 7 "seats). I guess the luxury of instant electric heat is another of many reasons why the S and X cost more.

 

[pt19713]

This post has been informative because for some reason I just assumed that the Y had the traditional resistance heating (to get things going) and heat pump (for long term efficiency). One of my (many) favorite things about my former S was the instant and high quality heat. I am really going to miss that on my yet to be built Y (been waiting forever for the 7 "seats). I guess the luxury of instant electric heat is another of many reasons why the S and X cost more.

You'll be surprised how quickly the Y cabin heats up in most temps (above 15F). Mine is in an insulated garage, so most mornings is about 40-45F in my garage. It takes about 6 minutes to heat my cabin to 66F. If you like it warmer, obviously it'll take a little longer but I find the Y heats up the interior faster than my previous gas vehicles.

 

[pkitch]

This post has been informative because for some reason I just assumed that the Y had the traditional resistance heating (to get things going) and heat pump (for long term efficiency). One of my (many) favorite things about my former S was the instant and high quality heat. I am really going to miss that on my yet to be built Y (been waiting forever for the 7 "seats). I guess the luxury of instant electric heat is another of many reasons why the S and X cost more.

I am curious to know if the Y also has resistive heating as mine heats up within a few mins (3-4 max) although I don't have experience of much below freezing temps. This is with no pre-conditioning so imagine there's no heat for the Heat pump to scavenge. If it is solely Heat Pump, I am impressed at the efficiency - although again my experience listed to not generally below 30F.

 

[pt19713]

I am curious to know if the Y also has resistive heating as mine heats up within a few mins (3-4 max) although I don't have experience of much below freezing temps. This is with no pre-conditioning so imagine there's no heat for the Heat pump to scavenge. If it is solely Heat Pump, I am impressed at the efficiency - although again my experience listed to not generally below 30F.

Highly unlikely due to the lower power draw with the HVAC on w/o pre-conditioning. If there was additional heating elements, the power draw at idle would be much higher. I'm only seeing 500-600 watts at idle with the heater on and no pre-conditioning (I've only done this twice for other tests). If the car was immediately blowing warm air with resistive heating, it'd be drawing well over 2000 watts.

Here's a graph showing how fast the stator motors warm up and why resistive heating isn't needed. Within 2 minutes the front motor is at 150F, the rear motor is at 130F (blue and red line). At 5 minutes, 160F & 130F respectively.. The red line is what I find interesting. This is the battery inlet temperature, which is the temp of the refrigerant prior to entering the battery pack. Between 1 minute and 2 minutes is where there's some non-linear activity. This is where, I believe, the heat is pulled from the refrigerant and directed to heat the cabin instead of the battery, hence the dramatic drop in the battery inlet temp. After 2 minutes, it resumes the rise in temp once the cabin reaches the target temperature.

 

[rypalmer]

There are major heating issues in the model y. I purchased mine on 12/30/2020 two days later on a long trip heat went out. Had to stop and reboot worked fine for a day then same thing again and again. Has been in service for a week they ordered heat sensor part below and I pick up this morning. Will update of this solves the problem.

Parts Outstanding

1. PT Sensor, High Pressure
   Part #: 1510047-00-B
   Ship Date: January 8, 2021
   Scheduled Delivery: January 11, 2021

I bet you are thrilled yours went... you get to pump your referral code and ad revenue on your YouTube channel.

 

[Super_Popular]

I bet you are thrilled yours went... you get to pump your referral code and ad revenue on your YouTube channel.

HA!....

 

[jcanoe]

Highly unlikely due to the lower power draw with the HVAC on w/o pre-conditioning. If there was additional heating elements, the power draw at idle would be much higher. I'm only seeing 500-600 watts at idle with the heater on and no pre-conditioning (I've only done this twice for other tests). If the car was immediately blowing warm air with resistive heating, it'd be drawing well over 2000 watts.

Here's a graph showing how fast the stator motors warm up and why resistive heating isn't needed. Within 2 minutes the front motor is at 150F, the rear motor is at 130F (blue and red line). At 5 minutes, 160F & 130F respectively.. The red line is what I find interesting. This is the battery inlet temperature, which is the temp of the refrigerant prior to entering the battery pack. Between 1 minute and 2 minutes is where there's some non-linear activity. This is where, I believe, the heat is pulled from the refrigerant and directed to heat the cabin instead of the battery, hence the dramatic drop in the battery inlet temp. After 2 minutes, it resumes the rise in temp once the cabin reaches the target temperature.

View attachment 626919

Based on the graph data you provided the front induction motor warms up faster than the rear motor once the front motor reaches ~120F and then reaches a higher end temperature than does the rear permanent magnet motor. Considering that the new Standard Range (SR) Model Y only has the rear drive permanent magnet motor, does this mean that owners of the SR MY should expect slower preconditioning, a longer time needed to warm up the battery pack and the passenger cabin? Is the SR MY perhaps better suited to a warmer climate?

 

[pt19713]

Based on the graph data you provided the front induction motor warms up more quickly and to a higher end temperature than does the rear permanent magnet motor. Considering that the new Standard Range (SR) Model Y only has the rear drive permanent magnet motor, does this mean that owners of the SR MY should expect slower preconditioning, a longer time needed to warm up the battery pack and the passenger cabin? Is the SR MY perhaps better suited to a warmer climate?

I don't know if this is a strategic move by Tesla or by design, possibly both and pure genius. Most likely the latter. While parked, the front motor is always warmer faster and at higher temps (up to 210F). The rear motor I've seen maxed out at 170F.

For the single motor, we'll just have to wait and see, and hope an owner with one gets the hardware with the SMT app to pull the data (or I can borrow one for 20 minutes to test, but not many Teslas in my area and I don't have the Bjorn-credibility lol).
I don't really follow the Model 3 forums and groups, so I don't know if any cold weather 2021 Model 3 SR have talked about cold weather pre-conditioning, cabin heating, etc.

 

[jcanoe]

I don't know if this is a strategic move by Tesla or by design, possibly both and pure genius. Most likely the latter. While parked, the front motor is always warmer faster and at higher temps (up to 210F). The rear motor I've seen maxed out at 170F.

For the single motor, we'll just have to wait and see, and hope an owner with one gets the hardware with the SMT app to pull the data (or I can borrow one for 20 minutes to test, but not many Teslas in my area and I don't have the Bjorn-credibility lol).
I don't really follow the Model 3 forums and groups, so I don't know if any cold weather 2021 Model 3 SR have talked about cold weather pre-conditioning, cabin heating, etc.

Unless Tesla increases the power level of the rear motor while warming up the coolant (~3.5kW) to a higher level it would take longer, perhaps up to twice as long, to achieve the same level of battery warming and cabin heating as when both the front and rear motors in the Long Range Dual Motor and the Performance Model Y are used to generate heat while using up to ~7.0kW.

 

[pt19713]

When I get a chance, I'm going to dig around the Model 3 forums and see if I can find past information on the SR and pre-conditioning.