Model Y low speed pedestrian safety sound

[Wattsisname]

I can't imagine how you could accidentally "knock the wire" off the PWS. It is a connector that has a retaining clip, and you'd have to reach pretty far in to the front bumper area to access it. Why would a car wash place be taking off wheel liners much less cleaning behind (?) them?

It is entirely possible that it ends up disconnected from the factory by mistake though, and unnoticed before delivery, such is Tesla PDI.

Absolutely! I would accept your knowledge of car washing and wheel arches...I mean....you are from Bath. Sorry! Demob (and remob) happy. Delivery date eight sleeps away.

 

[Steve446]

Interesting thread. I was rather shocked to read the apparent lack of solid, scientifically derived evidence for the RNIB etal arguments for a mandatory PWS. Or, did I misunderstand?

I own 3 cars, a Duster 2019, a Renault Zoé R90 2017 and a Tesla M3 LR AWD 2021. Based on my experiences with these cars, I'd like to add some comments:
1) The Duster is very quiet at low speed ~20 Km/h
2) Zoé and Tesla M3 start making road noise at a slightly higher speed than the Duster - give or take ~25 Km/h
3) In town/city low speed driving with any of my cars, (<30 Km/h), many people >~50 Yrs old who cross roads without checking for vehicles coming towards them (lots of them), do not hear the car coming regardless whether ICE or EV. I've experienced situations where I have followed pedestrians in the middle of the road for 20-30 M before they woke up to my car behind them
4) Younger persons don't ever seem to have a problem hearing or sensing an oncoming EV.

So, there might be a case for people with poor or no eyesight but people of "middle age" often seem plain deaf or at least careless of their safety. Maybe some money should be spent on road safety for pedestrians too? Particularly as the n° of EVs on the roads grows. None of what I say should be taken as pejorative, my remarks are strictly factual, nor do my comments above take away from the obligation to be a careful, safe and attentive driver, respectful of others. But... I have the feeling of the clock being put backwards here!

 

[DeejUK]

I'd add to this thread that cats seem to not give a b****cks about EVs. Several times I've driven round the cul-de-sac where I live, and cats just lay in the middle of the road, nonchalantly looking up at the Model X as if to say "it's not making the right noise, so I'm not moving." On one occasion I had to come to a complete stop and beep the damned horn to get a particular feline to move itself, lest it become a tiny fur rug.

 

[chwe]

I'd add to this thread that cats seem to not give a b****cks about EVs. Several times I've driven round the cul-de-sac where I live, and cats just lay in the middle of the road, nonchalantly looking up at the Model X as if to say "it's not making the right noise, so I'm not moving." On one occasion I had to come to a complete stop and beep the damned horn to get a particular feline to move itself, lest it become a tiny fur rug.

Cats are known to be petrolheads and climate deniers and this is just their way of protesting.

 

[GRiLLA]

Interesting thread. I was rather shocked to read the apparent lack of solid, scientifically derived evidence for the RNIB etal arguments for a mandatory PWS. Or, did I misunderstand?

I own 3 cars, a Duster 2019, a Renault Zoé R90 2017 and a Tesla M3 LR AWD 2021. Based on my experiences with these cars, I'd like to add some comments:
1) The Duster is very quiet at low speed ~20 Km/h
2) Zoé and Tesla M3 start making road noise at a slightly higher speed than the Duster - give or take ~25 Km/h
3) In town/city low speed driving with any of my cars, (<30 Km/h), many people >~50 Yrs old who cross roads without checking for vehicles coming towards them (lots of them), do not hear the car coming regardless whether ICE or EV. I've experienced situations where I have followed pedestrians in the middle of the road for 20-30 M before they woke up to my car behind them
4) Younger persons don't ever seem to have a problem hearing or sensing an oncoming EV.

So, there might be a case for people with poor or no eyesight but people of "middle age" often seem plain deaf or at least careless of their safety. Maybe some money should be spent on road safety for pedestrians too? Particularly as the n° of EVs on the roads grows. None of what I say should be taken as pejorative, my remarks are strictly factual, nor do my comments above take away from the obligation to be a careful, safe and attentive driver, respectful of others. But... I have the feeling of the clock being put backwards here!

The RNIB represent people that are blind or have vision loss, not 'older people with little awareness'. In a car park, if you are blind then you can tell if a car you are walking past has it's engine running so may be about to move, unless that's an entirely silent electric car. I can't see what evidence is missing.

 

[Mrklaw]

The RNIB represent people that are blind or have vision loss, not 'older people with little awareness'. In a car park, if you are blind then you can tell if a car you are walking past has it's engine running so may be about to move, unless that's an entirely silent electric car. I can't see what evidence is missing.

surely in such a situation the driver should have the responsibility to make sure its safe to emerge? especially in a car park at such slow speeds?

 

[Steve446]

The RNIB represent people that are blind or have vision loss, not 'older people with little awareness'. In a car park, if you are blind then you can tell if a car you are walking past has it's engine running so may be about to move, unless that's an entirely silent electric car. I can't see what evidence is missing.

Regards your comments:
1) I'm well aware of what RNIB represents and my post reflects that in a courteous manner. Furthermore, what I understood from this feed is the suggestion that RNIB was not using good data to promote their case. There's nothing like real data to prove a point. If I misunderstood or misquoted I would be happy to say so, no problem. If they have good solid data supporting their case I would be happy to hear about that and would be the first to quote it. Let me know.
2) "'older people with little awareness" - I did not use that phrase in my post so don't know where you got it from. Are you referring to someone else?
3) "an entirely silent electric car". Can you point out an EV that's totally silent ? I would be interested to hear about that, thank you.

 

[Steve446]

surely in such a situation the driver should have the responsibility to make sure its safe to emerge? especially in a car park at such slow speeds?

Totally agree. Carelessness by a driver or a pedestrian is not an excuse.

 

[GRiLLA]

surely in such a situation the driver should have the responsibility to make sure its safe to emerge? especially in a car park at such slow speeds?

Of course they do, pedestrians are always the most vulnerable road user and our highway code makes it clear they have right of way. That doesn't mean you just walk around without a care assuming someone else will avoid running you over.

I'm well aware of what RNIB represents and my post reflects that in a courteous manner. Furthermore, what I understood from this feed is the suggestion that RNIB was not using good data to promote their case. There's nothing like real data to prove a point. If I misunderstood or misquoted I would be happy to say so, no problem. If they have good solid data supporting their case I would be happy to hear about that and would be the first to quote it. Let me know.

Yes people are suggesting that, and you are repeating it. It is however nonsense, and comes from people suggesting these rules exist because someone with perfectly good vision didn't hear them once. It's not, RNIB are not representing those people;

"'older people with little awareness" - I did not use that phrase in my post so don't know where you got it from. Are you referring to someone else?

Yes I am paraphrasing from "many people >~50 Yrs old who cross roads without checking for vehicles coming towards them (lots of them), do not hear the car coming regardless whether ICE or EV."

"an entirely silent electric car". Can you point out an EV that's totally silent ? I would be interested to hear about that, thank you

An EV in a parking space but is about to move, without AVAS, is silent. With AVAS it is not silent.

 

[Steve446]

Of course they do, pedestrians are always the most vulnerable road user and our highway code makes it clear they have right of way. That doesn't mean you just walk around without a care assuming someone else will avoid running you over.

Glad to see we agree

Yes people are suggesting that, and you are repeating it. It is however nonsense, and comes from people suggesting these rules exist because someone with perfectly good vision didn't hear them once. It's not, RNIB are not representing those people;

OK fine but just quote the data not your opinion!

Yes I am paraphrasing from "many people >~50 Yrs old who cross roads without checking for vehicles coming towards them (lots of them), do not hear the car coming regardless whether ICE or EV."

Please don't paraphrase it leads to misunderstandings. Be upfront. My comment is based on facts and it has happened many times to me. I'm a careful driver so I predict what such a pedestrian is likely to do. I don't need to paraphrase to make a point.

An EV in a parking space but is about to move, without AVAS, is silent. With AVAS it is not silent.

Do you own or drive an EV? It would be helpful to know. Every EV I have driven makes a lot of noise within a few seconds on starting due to its HVAC system. Actually it's quite difficult to miss.

Anyway I'm not arguing in favour or against a PWS / AVAS, what I said is that it's a step backwards in time and having it will not necessarily solve the issues that clearly passion your replies.

Let's call it a day. I made my post in good faith and, I understand your point of view without reservation. It would be nice if you acknowledge my point of view too.

 

[GRiLLA]

Do you own or drive an EV? It would be helpful to know. Every EV I have driven makes a lot of noise within a few seconds on starting due to its HVAC system. Actually it's quite difficult to miss.

My HVAC would be on if I'm sat in the car, there's also all kinds of fans on when an EV or ICE is recently parked. So no, you couldn't practically know a car was about to move in any practical way. With an ICE you would hear the engine and be highly likely to hear the tone as the revs increase while the clutch is operating.

Anyway I'm not arguing in favour or against a PWS / AVAS, what I said is that it's a step backwards in time and having it will not necessarily solve the issues that clearly passion your replies.

Solves the issue I described so I don't see your point

Let's call it a day. I made my post in good faith and, I understand your point of view without reservation. It would be nice if you acknowledge my point of view too.

No thanks, the point of respecting other peoples opinions only applies if they are not patently incorrect. It's somewhat distasteful to see people questioning whether the widely respected RNIB were in some way misrepresenting the issue of the groups they represent. The need as I've described is so obvious anyone should understand it and not need to ask why they don't need this minor adaption to assist blind people.

 

[Steve446]

My HVAC would be on if I'm sat in the car, there's also all kinds of fans on when an EV or ICE is recently parked. So no, you couldn't practically know a car was about to move in any practical way. With an ICE you would hear the engine and be highly likely to hear the tone as the revs increase while the clutch is operating.

Solves the issue I described so I don't see your point

No thanks, the point of respecting other peoples opinions only applies if they are not patently incorrect. It's somewhat distasteful to see people questioning whether the widely respected RNIB were in some way misrepresenting the issue of the groups they represent. The need as I've described is so obvious anyone should understand it and not need to ask why they don't need this minor adaption to assist blind people.

The whole point about debating on a forum is to make one's point, and, in return, accepting that if other users don't agree with your point of view, you nevertheless acknowledge it. That's something to respect and not treat with disdain.

 

[SpareHeadOne]

Totally agree. Carelessness by a driver or a pedestrian is not an excuse.

And of little comfort if you are the one who ends up in hospital.

A few years ago I encountered one of the first Lexus hybrids in a hotel car park - or rather I narrow avoided encountering it. I'd seen the guy get into the car, but didn't know it was a hybrid, so it was a massive surprise when it suddenly started backing out of the bay as I was about to walk behind it.

If he'd bloody looked over his shoulder instead of just setting off then I would have had some kind of warning, but also if I'd been about five seconds earlier he would have knocked me flying. Since then I'm alway extra careful when pulling out of a bay myself, but I fear I am in a minority.

 

[Mrklaw]

And of little comfort if you are the one who ends up in hospital.

A few years ago I encountered one of the first Lexus hybrids in a hotel car park - or rather I narrow avoided encountering it. I'd seen the guy get into the car, but didn't know it was a hybrid, so it was a massive surprise when it suddenly started backing out of the bay as I was about to walk behind it.

If he'd bloody looked over his shoulder instead of just setting off then I would have had some kind of warning, but also if I'd been about five seconds earlier he would have knocked me flying. Since then I'm alway extra careful when pulling out of a bay myself, but I fear I am in a minority.

Not remotely putting myself in the shoes of a blind person - purely considering my own actions

In a car park I’ll try and bite occupied cars and pay more attention to them for movement eg checking over their shoulder suggests about to leave. Or cars with lights on I’ll check for reversing lights. All of these I’ll give more space if possible because if they move when I’m close it’ll be too late to react

At no point do I consciously recall attention drawn by engine noise as so many are quiet at idle and even when pulling out of a spot.

Blind people wont have either of the cues I normally use so perhaps they can tune into quieter engine sounds I’m less aware of. In that case makes sense for quiet cars to have some kind of noisemaker

I am still curious why only EV and if some of the quietest ICE cars have been tested for suitability of detection for blind people.

 

[Nd4me]

Not remotely putting myself in the shoes of a blind person - purely considering my own actions

In a car park I’ll try and bite occupied cars and pay more attention to them for movement eg checking over their shoulder suggests about to leave. Or cars with lights on I’ll check for reversing lights. All of these I’ll give more space if possible because if they move when I’m close it’ll be too late to react

At no point do I consciously recall attention drawn by engine noise as so many are quiet at idle and even when pulling out of a spot.

Blind people wont have either of the cues I normally use so perhaps they can tune into quieter engine sounds I’m less aware of. In that case makes sense for quiet cars to have some kind of noisemaker

I am still curious why only EV and if some of the quietest ICE cars have been tested for suitability of detection for blind people.

I would always be listening for engine noise. To many cars and blind spots to be checking each one for a driver then reading the drivers body language to judge if they are preparing to move! It would be a very slow walk through the car park to use this technique

 

[Mrklaw]

I would always be listening for engine noise. To many cars and blind spots to be checking each one for a driver then reading the drivers body language to judge if they are preparing to move! It would be a very slow walk through the car park to use this technique

It’s not a conscious thing, just scanning and keeping an eye out for movement either of the cars or from inside/lights etc

I’ll pay more attention next few times, see if I even notice the engine note

 

[Nd4me]

It’s not a conscious thing, just scanning and keeping an eye out for movement either of the cars or from inside/lights etc

I’ll pay more attention next few times, see if I even notice the engine note

The sound of a combustion engine moving off from a standstill is unmistakable

 

[s88ats]

This is interesting - my 2020 Model 3 didn't have the speaker installed for pws to work at all, and during its tenure, I didn't have any close encounters with pedestrians. I liked the fact it made no noise, especially late nights/ early mornings - it was very stealth-like.

My model y does however have it, and I find the fake noise irritating personally - I reverse onto my drive. I suppose IF it helps with safety (didn't make any difference in my case), I will learn to live with it and keep my views to myself

 

[fancealot]

The main issue I've found primarily is the people who walk around headphones in constantly listening to thier own soundtrack and wander aimlessley across roads and through car parks as if they haven't a care in the world. Too many times in my M3 AND my wife's Mazda CX-30 have people wandered across without looking and i've had to hit the brakes (i've usually seen them coming so don't have to slam on the anchors but still makes me have to stop). No matter what wooooing or engine roaring happens these people still won't hear it, maybe we should have a the ghetto blaster thudding out tunes and the lights flashing all colours of the rainbow it may make them more aware .... or maybe lets start teaching people the green cross code again!!!

 

[Adopado]