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Model Y Not Worth the Price Now [Nov 2022]

Is the Current Price on the MY LR Overpriced?


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Do you really think all those Japanese auto makers were magically able to focus on the quality from the beginning before they come over the the US market?
Maybe, quality is a form of product differentiation. I think the main issue is that Tesla only has one lever that it can pull today - price. It might be a major competitive advantage but that was the same lever that the Detroit automakers tried to pull in the 1990s and early 2000s when customer demand was moving in different directions and they only pushed out tired stale products.

It'll be interesting to watch 2023 in the EV market - it will be price vs customer differentiation. Do customers all want the same EV that's been on the market for a long time or will they choose many of the new options available that's more targeted to them.
 
Maybe, quality is a form of product differentiation. I think the main issue is that Tesla only has one lever that it can pull today - price. It might be a major competitive advantage but that was the same lever that the Detroit automakers tried to pull in the 1990s and early 2000s when customer demand was moving in different directions and they only pushed out tired stale products.

It'll be interesting to watch 2023 in the EV market - it will be price vs customer differentiation. Do customers all want the same EV that's been on the market for a long time or will they choose many of the new options available that's more targeted to them.
Ford MME owner here. Have had it for 6 months, price is important but the reliability of features might matter more.

Range and charger availability are top line concerns, mine has a standard range battery and it gets about 220 miles in the summer and ~160 in the winter. Going from 20% charge to 80% takes 45 minutes. Finding a charger can be an issue, some places the best you can do is level 2 at 20kw.

Ford apps are unremarkable. My wife and I use apps on our phones in place of everything the car comes with. The voice recognition system frequently picks up on words from music / podcasts and starts reading off long-form information it found on the Internet. The mobile app allows you to start the car and operate doors / windows, but not much beyond that. The car is supposed to be personalized but it can't seem to tell the difference between me and my wife, even though it's tied to the smartphone / dongle and there's an interior camera for facial recognition.

BlueCruise is their version of Autopilot. Although it was promised for every edition of the MME, but it's not available for mine because of the lack of a front-facing camera. So I'm limited to enhanced cruise control and lane assist, which is different from BlueCruise.

Then there's the collision warning system. The car sometimes (infrequently) comes to a screeching halt when I change lanes. This has happened on the highway a couple times, felt like I was lucky to have avoided an accident. But it's most concerning when it happens while you're travelling at low speeds and there are other cars around you (like going to the grocery store.) The car suddenly stops moving and everyone immediately slams their horns.

These are just some of the drawbacks with the features. While I my overall impression of the car is positive, I don't think these features are going to drive sales. The only MME edition with a long range battery sells for $68k, and that only gets 270 miles of range. When you realize how much that matters, the range of options narrows significantly.
 
i guess you all missing the point.
it's not about history or what legacy guys or others went thru.
just stating current state of TESLA and how they miss it... with quantity over quality approach.. even with their simple design approach. it's not driven by parts but deliberate approach problem.
if we say other have same problems.. then agree that tesla is not that much better...
tesla shouldn't have to reinvent solving the problem.. for all they are, my expectation is them learning from all prev problems and resolutions. but they don't seem to care BECAUSE - their customers don't hold them RESPONSIBLE.. we all take delivery of the car with problems work thru service appts... i have 7th one scheduled for missing IR emitters on cabin camera and auto pilot not working.. and we don't even know if they will fix or just bluff that it's a firmware issue.
 
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Ford MME owner here. Have had it for 6 months, price is important but the reliability of features might matter more.

Range and charger availability are top line concerns, mine has a standard range battery and it gets about 220 miles in the summer and ~160 in the winter. Going from 20% charge to 80% takes 45 minutes. Finding a charger can be an issue, some places the best you can do is level 2 at 20kw.

Ford apps are unremarkable. My wife and I use apps on our phones in place of everything the car comes with. The voice recognition system frequently picks up on words from music / podcasts and starts reading off long-form information it found on the Internet. The mobile app allows you to start the car and operate doors / windows, but not much beyond that. The car is supposed to be personalized but it can't seem to tell the difference between me and my wife, even though it's tied to the smartphone / dongle and there's an interior camera for facial recognition.

BlueCruise is their version of Autopilot. Although it was promised for every edition of the MME, but it's not available for mine because of the lack of a front-facing camera. So I'm limited to enhanced cruise control and lane assist, which is different from BlueCruise.

Then there's the collision warning system. The car sometimes (infrequently) comes to a screeching halt when I change lanes. This has happened on the highway a couple times, felt like I was lucky to have avoided an accident. But it's most concerning when it happens while you're travelling at low speeds and there are other cars around you (like going to the grocery store.) The car suddenly stops moving and everyone immediately slams their horns.

These are just some of the drawbacks with the features. While I my overall impression of the car is positive, I don't think these features are going to drive sales. The only MME edition with a long range battery sells for $68k, and that only gets 270 miles of range. When you realize how much that matters, the range of options narrows significantly.
I was debating the Ford MachE vs Tesla Model Y very closely before I bought the Tesla. Overall I thought the Ford looked like a much nicer car than the Tesla. However, I pickled the Tesla mainly due to practical reasons such as a noticeably smaller trunk space vs what I need to transport kid stuff. I think that would still be the deciding factor for me between the two cars.

The Hyundai Ionic, Mercedes EQB, new Chevy Equinox (?) and/or Cadillac Lyriq also seem like good Model Y alternatives but haven't been paying much attention to the alternative EV space after buying the Tesla.

One of my coworkers has the Mach-E though and loves it so YMMV.
 
Sorry. The legacy automakers are not closing in and never will. They are far too far behind. They have a horrendous charging infrastructure, now overpriced cars, dealing with bullshit dealer networks. It will just never happen. This is the nail In the coffee and the true start of the tesla take over.
That's some backwards logic right there.
Why can't any 1 of the Big 3 or even better all of them get together and put in a charging system? What's stopping them? Money? No. Scalability? No. Access to government policy? No.
Just because Tesla's stock was valuated at a certain price has zero to do with the actual value of the company. Tesla is a fledgling automaker with typical fledgling issues.
Stop reading the headlines and start reading the quarterly reports.
 
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That's some backwards logic right there.
Why can't any 1 of the Big 3 or even better all of them get together and put in a charging system? What's stopping them? Money? No. Scalability? No. Access to government policy? No.
Just because Tesla's stock was valuated at a certain price has zero to do with the actual value of the company. Tesla is a fledgling automaker with typical fledgling issues.
Stop reading the headlines and start reading the quarterly reports.
LOL its all about money, legacy autos dont want to spend money they want to make money the easiest way they can by selling cars. they dont care about the end user experience but its only ever growing as a problem as so many legacy ev owners are switching to tesla because of the atrocious charging experience
 
I was debating the Ford MachE vs Tesla Model Y very closely before I bought the Tesla. Overall I thought the Ford looked like a much nicer car than the Tesla. However, I pickled the Tesla mainly due to practical reasons such as a noticeably smaller trunk space vs what I need to transport kid stuff. I think that would still be the deciding factor for me between the two cars.

The Hyundai Ionic, Mercedes EQB, new Chevy Equinox (?) and/or Cadillac Lyriq also seem like good Model Y alternatives but haven't been paying much attention to the alternative EV space after buying the Tesla.

One of my coworkers has the Mach-E though and loves it so YMMV.
I was speaking with a mach e owner at a free charging station and he loves his as well. He was looking at the Tesla but it was too expensive at that time but he does not have a heat pump which we need in the NY area for winter time and some of the features like auto pilot. He says one day he will get a Tesla.
 
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I do think tesla took money from states/fed and stood-up charging network that only works for tesla.. wise move. not that 100% was govt money but signifciant chunk of it.
that's why lawmakers wised up this time.. and won't give money unless charging infra is universal.
Where as in EU it's opposite. tesla had to adopt universal due to govt regulations.
 
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I do think tesla took money from states/fed and stood-up charging network that only works for tesla.. wise move. not that 100% was govt money but signifciant chunk of it.
that's why lawmakers wised up this time.. and won't give money unless charging infra is universal.
Where as in EU it's opposite. tesla had to adopt universal due to govt regulations.
The way I understand it, and I've read this for a long time, the ICE manufacturers dragged their feet, kicked and screamed, and declined to choose a standard for years. Largely because they had no intention to go electric if they could avoid it. Tesla became impatient, knowing that they were going to go ahead with things bigly, so they just went with their connectors. It was only after that that the rest settled on CCS1. Japanese manufacturers had already gone with CHAdeMO.

I can't find documentation that the Tesla network received any government funding prior to the current situation. Maybe I missed it.

I do agree that it would be nice to have a truly universal charging standard, but it's going to be difficult at this point with so many cars of different standards on the road.

🍻
 
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LOL its all about money, legacy autos dont want to spend money they want to make money the easiest way they can by selling cars. they dont care about the end user experience but its only ever growing as a problem as so many legacy ev owners are switching to tesla because of the atrocious charging experience
And just like Tesla has reduced their price due to market pressure so will the big 3. If they don't they'll go the way of the Dodo bird. And the likelihood of that happening is slim and none.
The big 3 have more money and influence than Tesla could ever imagine. The 2008 bailout is proof positive.
Again Tesla is no different than Honda in the 70' & 80's or Hyundai in the 90's, they're dealing with the same issues Honda and Hyundai did.
It's ok. Elon is gonna be just fine. Tesla will also be just fine if they continue to address these issues with the customer experience as the priority.
 
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The way I understand it, and I've read this for a long time, the ICE manufacturers dragged their feet, kicked and screamed, and declined to choose a standard for years. Largely because they had no intention to go electric if they could avoid it. Tesla became impatient, knowing that they were going to go ahead with things bigly, so they just went with their connectors. It was only after that that the rest settled on CCS1. Japanese manufacturers had already gone with CHAdeMO.

I can't find documentation that the Tesla network received any government funding prior to the current situation. Maybe I missed it.

I do agree that it would be nice to have a truly universal charging standard, but it's going to be difficult at this point with so many cars of different standards on the road.

🍻
yeah.... not agreeing to standard was probably (or definitely) their (ICE guys) way of slowing down Tesla.
 
I was speaking with a mach e owner at a free charging station and he loves his as well. He was looking at the Tesla but it was too expensive at that time but he does not have a heat pump which we need in the NY area for winter time and some of the features like auto pilot. He says one day he will get a Tesla.
I’m sure by the time he’s ready for his next car, many of these features will be standard. The technical gap isn’t much anymore and he has car play, which will is still better than teslas half hearted Apple Music app.

Competition is great and I hope the innovation isn’t just on price
 
The technical gap isn’t much anymore and he has car play, which will is still better than teslas half hearted Apple Music app.

Competition is great and I hope the innovation isn’t just on price

I hope so but while tesla is still trying to get full self driving to work, other manufacturers seem to be throwing in the towel and saying it will take "years".....

Not only do the legacy car makers need to innovate in the front end, but they need to innovate in the back end - supply change efficiency, giga press, dealership network inefficiencies, etc..

To think of it, I really don't know how they can do that within the next 5 years...

The only real advantage that legacy car makers have is that they are better at making ICE cars than tesla.... and perhaps political (contributions to politicians, unions, etc...)
 
And just like Tesla has reduced their price due to market pressure so will the big 3. If they don't they'll go the way of the Dodo bird. And the likelihood of that happening is slim and none.
The big 3 have more money and influence than Tesla could ever imagine. The 2008 bailout is proof positive.
Again Tesla is no different than Honda in the 70' & 80's or Hyundai in the 90's, they're dealing with the same issues Honda and Hyundai did.
It's ok. Elon is gonna be just fine. Tesla will also be just fine if they continue to address these issues with the customer experience as the priority.
the problem is the big 3 cant afford to lower their prices, their production costs for their EVs are massive compared to tesla, tesla doesnt need government influence nor do they want it.
 
I hope so but while tesla is still trying to get full self driving to work, other manufacturers seem to be throwing in the towel and saying it will take "years".....

Not only do the legacy car makers need to innovate in the front end, but they need to innovate in the back end - supply change efficiency, giga press, dealership network inefficiencies, etc..

To think of it, I really don't know how they can do that within the next 5 years...

The only real advantage that legacy car makers have is that they are better at making ICE cars than tesla.... and perhaps political (contributions to politicians, unions, etc...)
I don’t think Tesla has a monopoly on supply chain efficiencies in the automotive industry. A lot of what they’ve done is fairly common sense and just need ramp up - my guess is a lot of ice cars are already built this way - tesla just know how to market it well.
As for the dealer network, I thought it was bad until Tesla screwed me with their surprise cuts so I’m not sure there’s a real inventing the auto industry angle here. Maybe there’s a business margin benefit but now they have to hold massive amounts of inventory that legacy automakers shift the cost and risk on to a 3rd party for.

The main structural advantage Tesla has is non unionized labor but again other manufacturers have that too.

If the big three don’t figure out, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, or German manufacturers will. And there is plenty of state support all around.

As for fsd, I don’t think the legacy manufacturers are throwing in the towel. They will likely buy from nvidia, Waymo, etc. They rightly realize this isn’t their core competency and isn’t the one thing they need to get right to win.
 
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As for the dealer network, I thought it was bad until Tesla screwed me with their surprise cuts so I’m not sure there’s a real inventing the auto industry angle here. Maybe there’s a business margin benefit but now they have to hold massive amounts of inventory that .....

Would you have preferred to not know about the "surprise cuts"? Dealerships hide rebates and incentives from buyers all the time. I remember seeing $8,000 rebates a while back. One person can pay $35k for a car, and another can pay $25K for a car but nobody really notices because the dealerships hide the prices sold to buyers. I guess that is one positive that dealerships do -- they can hide prices and some people are happy about this because it doesn't affect the values of their cars (but in reality it does -- not as fast as lowering the MSRP, but it does in the long term). Personally, I don't like those type of games, but I know why it exists. So situation like this doesn't happen. People are emotional. Tesla is pulling the bandage and people don't like it.
 
Maybe, quality is a form of product differentiation. I think the main issue is that Tesla only has one lever that it can pull today - price. It might be a major competitive advantage but that was the same lever that the Detroit automakers tried to pull in the 1990s and early 2000s when customer demand was moving in different directions and they only pushed out tired stale products.

It'll be interesting to watch 2023 in the EV market - it will be price vs customer differentiation. Do customers all want the same EV that's been on the market for a long time or will they choose many of the new options available that's more targeted to them.
It Will be very interesting in 2023! Especially as the other auto makers are already working at a net Loss as are many of the Chinese examples and most unable to “pull a lever” to get near a tax incentive without cataclysmic loss per vehicle! Ford is already loosing 3k per vehicle, many others 10k Plus.
8A48836B-C783-4240-A4FD-035BDF9FB0FF.jpeg
 
LOL its all about money, legacy autos dont want to spend money they want to make money the easiest way they can by selling cars. they dont care about the end user experience but its only ever growing as a problem as so many legacy ev owners are switching to tesla because of the atrocious charging experience
the others still aren't making enough EVs to want to invest billions in charging networks- they're still in the phase of amortizing the R&D and losing tons per car, and they hoping that the government will pay for it first. But if Chevy and Ford really do get to producing hundreds of thousands per model in 2024, their incentive to do it will grow.
 
most of the other car manufactures problems are specific to some non-popular/less produced models.
you don't hear honda accords or toyota camry's waiting on parts.
tesla has only 2 popular models churning 1000000's of them.. and their service problems are not related to parts.. but poor quality.
it will doom or get them in to trouble... it's like building houses with leaky roofs or missing plumbing and let's fix under warranty.. if customer finds it..
Talk to any Lexus/Toyota owner who had their catalytic converter stolen. My neighbor waited 6 months. It was so long, that he then had to spend money to tune up/recover the engine for the long idle period.

Tesla's fault looks more in the lack of manpower, and the initial defect rate you mention.
 
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It Will be very interesting in 2023! Especially as the other auto makers are already working at a net Loss as are many of the Chinese examples and most unable to “pull a lever” to get near a tax incentive without cataclysmic loss per vehicle! Ford is already loosing 3k per vehicle, many others 10k Plus.
View attachment 898030
Spreadsheet source? And date. Looks like Tesla wipes out all its profits then.

Existing automakers have been investing in ev capacity and product differentiation so that data is very time dependent.
 
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