This is a huge problem with non-Tesla EV. I'm hopeful there are great improvements in the next few years. If not then these other brand EV's will be a niche market.
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Model Y P vs Rivian R1S
- Thread starter 1.21GW
- Start date
This is a huge problem with non-Tesla EV. I'm hopeful there are great improvements in the next few years. If not then these other brand EV's will be a niche market.
Brando
Active Member
Tesla (Drew Baglino) said SuperCharger Network run as a separate profit center.
And Tesla constant improvement. PowerWalls, solar, food maybe.
How did you secure the test drive? Do you have an estimated date of delivery for later in the year? And how free a test ride was it? The successful selling point with Tesla is they gave me the keys to the Y and said come back in 30. With Ford, they let me drive the MME, escorted, in a large 3 mile square pattern, but never a chance to gun it or get up to freeway speeds. And others had no test rides at all.
Being a Feb order, I still don't have any idea if it might be 2023, or 2024. I want to get in a ride 3-6 months out, assess the company health, and how it compares after my first 1-2 years with the Y. The higher energy need could be a concern as I see how well I sized the solar to cover the EV. Once I go over, price moves from 11 cents to upper 20s with PG&E.
Go with the Rivian. My Model Y tries to kill me at least twice per week and the programmers are idi*t children who change the displays in incomprehensively idiotic ways.
I felt your pain for a long time with my Y. If I were to do it over, based on my experience with my Y, I would have gone with a Rivian instead. While I think the super charger network is one of the best selling points of Tesla, I haven't used it as much as I thought I would. There are a couple of Rivians in my neighborhood and I have to admit they look very nice.
I ran one with my Model 3 with boost, which is about as quick as an MYP, and it easily took my 3 from 0-40. We couldn't go much faster given the speedlimits in the area. I think their claimed 0-60 time of 3.0 is realistic. It has more room and I think they got a lot of things right. The lesser efficiency of the R1S is less of an issue for me than maybe some.
I have say how poorly TACC, and AP often worked, really soured me on my Y. If TACC/AP worked as well on my Y as my S and 3, I would have been a lot happier with the vehicle. Tesla could never find anything wrong with it. If I need to tow a lot again, the Rivian will likely be top of my list. It will be interesting to see how reliability pans out on the Rivian but it is a very good first effort overall.
for $60k-$70k Rivian, yes, but not for $90k plus Rivian.
Tesla fixed most of the issues when it comes to AP and phantom braking issues. Even with those issues, it was years ahead of other systems.
Neither part of that statement is remotely close to true. In fact, both parts of your statement are totally false.
First, issues with Tesla's autopilot and phantom braking have actually *risen* after recent updates. Secondly, it's a myth that Tesla was ahead of all other manufacturers, much less "years" ahead. Numerous objective third-party reviewers, including Road and Track, Car and Driver, and others have found the driver-assistance features in Cadillacs, Fords, and Volvos, in particular to equal or exceed the capability and safety of Tesla's. Moreover, I've had both a Model Y (two years) and a Volvo all-electric XC-40 Recharge (one year) on my driveway and find the two systems to be comparable, with the lane-keeping generally better through turns on the Tesla, but the overall stability and phantom braking issues with the Volvo to be far superior. Phantom braking has been nearly non-existent with the Volvo, but continues to this day with my Model Y.
finman100
Member
not even close. Where u gonna charge your Rivian when, you know, you drive it places?
pretty simple really.
Rivian needs to make more vehicles and fast or...
pretty simple really.
Rivian needs to make more vehicles and fast or...
Wow. your statement is totally in line with those anti Tesla biased media talking points with no factual base. GM's supercruise is only good for "mapped" highways, Ford = jokes, volvo = very basic adaptive cruise control and lane keeping assist is mostly good for straight highways.
Tesla is in fact years ahead of everyone else.
I don' t know where you get this idea of risen issues with the phantom braking after the updates. It keeps getting better, way better, and the majority of actual Tesla drivers agree:
Phantom Braking issues improved in 2022.4.5.17 update?
I've seen some reports on reddit of phantom braking being much improved in the latest software update when using cruise control, wondering if anyone here has noticed? I've been trying cruise control again a little bit the last two days and so far so good, but very small sample size so far.
teslamotorsclub.com
All I'd say about software is, you either have true Full Self Driving, or you are obligated to pay just as much attention to the road. Auto brakes, lane hold, adaptive cruise can all make your life a bit nicer but you still 100% have to continue to pay attention.
Since no one yet sells a car that you can take a nap in while commuting, they really are all essentially the same. A critical difference? One in particular has been way over sold as actual 'FSD', when it fact it isn't. That's reckless.
Since no one yet sells a car that you can take a nap in while commuting, they really are all essentially the same. A critical difference? One in particular has been way over sold as actual 'FSD', when it fact it isn't. That's reckless.
I agree to most. They are basically doing the same thing. It is just the level of functionality and how it executes is different from bad, okay, good, and better than the others. Also, if I remember correctly, you have to agree to purchase the FSD which is still in beta testing with no guaranteed date for full functionality, so it is not reckless for selling the testing product to people who agree to the terms and limitations, yet willing to pay to be the test mule.
@Suns_PSD Looking through your post history I have to ask: Do you have a Tesla vehicle, or one on order? If not, why are you here?
If you do have a Tesla and you're as unhappy with it as you sound, how about selling it while used car prices are still sky-high?
This is a lot of angst over a car. Life is short and there are many cars out there. If you really dislike Teslas that much, such that you can only ever complain about them here, move on!
I happen to agree with some of your points, but they don't negate what I do like about the cars. And many of your complaints are easily avoided. FSD is oversold and a terrible value at $10k+? Sure I agree. Don't buy it, problem avoided. Rivian R1S pre-increase was a better value than a Model Y at recent pricing? Yes in several ways...go hang out at a Rivian forum while you're waiting for your R1S! Don't dwell or get stuck on all the products out there that you don't like.
If you do have a Tesla and you're as unhappy with it as you sound, how about selling it while used car prices are still sky-high?
This is a lot of angst over a car. Life is short and there are many cars out there. If you really dislike Teslas that much, such that you can only ever complain about them here, move on!
I happen to agree with some of your points, but they don't negate what I do like about the cars. And many of your complaints are easily avoided. FSD is oversold and a terrible value at $10k+? Sure I agree. Don't buy it, problem avoided. Rivian R1S pre-increase was a better value than a Model Y at recent pricing? Yes in several ways...go hang out at a Rivian forum while you're waiting for your R1S! Don't dwell or get stuck on all the products out there that you don't like.
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price is a big piece of the question, yes. My YP with 2000 miles may sell for 70, and my R1S order that would now be 92, will be 79 to me if it is ultimately satisfied. With that I get even more speed, more cargo, 3rd row option, and 15" clearance if I needed it. It looks like a classic SUV too....though at a cost of efficiency. While I can squeeze the Y through my 86" W garage door, the R1X has half as much clearance and I almost certainly will need to figure out the cost of widening it. And one must consider the risk of them going out of business. All stuff to consider next year when there may be a decision to make. Starting with a test ride.
But on price/stated features, the R1S delivers more than the X for a lot less. And much more than the Y for just a little bit more.
Most people do not realize that Rivian looks very competitive and value on "paper" only. Even Tesla looks good on paper, but there are tons of other things that you need to experience to determine how actually they deliver. Millions of Tesla cars out there now and driven everyday and being praised and criticized. The biggest advantage of Tesla is that they gather tons of actual driving data from the cars on the road every second/minute/hour, etc for continuous improvement and feedback.
that's SUPER hand wavy, Nate. Begging for some elaboration, specifics.
Tesla has years of customer data, but competitors can see most of the lessons. That's Lucid's entire philosophy- delivery all the things Tesla didn't. Many are offering 800V charging, real promise of V2H, and other features that weren't so practical a decade ago as Tesla starting building up.
Rivian delivers the air suspension (with adjustability) that Tesla only gives for an extra 40k on the X/S models. 50% more storage. Ventilated seats. 4 motors.
Will the self driving stuff be as good? Does it matter when Tesla is in perm beta mode? I'm not paying 12k, so I will only compare to autopilot.
Charging is the obvious Tesla differentiator. Today, a big one. But in 2024....?
by the time I have to actually think about this, there will be plenty of Rivian owners out there, and possibly some changes to the charging networks.
I love Tesla (has a M3 and will get my MY next week), but I also think FSD is a joke and I'm totally open to other EV brands such as Rivian. I'm just a consumer and have no brand loyalty...whoever makes the vehicle that meets my needs/budget will get my business
I currently have a 2018 Performance Model 3 with FSD, and I'm in the final process of getting a Rivian R1T. I haven't decided yet on whether I'll trade my Tesla in on the Rivian or if I'll trade my Jeep Wrangler Unlimited in on the Rivian.
For me both of them have their strengths and weaknesses.
With Tesla its by far the Supercharging network being really solid, and dependable. I could travel places without much concern about being able to charge. Sure the Range has never gotten anywhere close to the promise 310 miles, but it Superchargers quickly and its not too big of a deal.
The biggest weakness of Tesla is the lack of customer engagement. There are so many things that don't work like they're supposed to, and it can be maddening. For example the automatic lights no longer turn on in the rain during the day like they used to. Now you have to make sure to turn them on manually or you'll be one of those idiots who doesn't use their lights in the rain.
FSD progress has been painfully slow, and even the AP experience isn't at the level where I wish it was. What I want is an ultra smooth AP experience on freeways with minimal phantom braking (no more than one moderate one per 1K miles). What I currently have AP that's barely useable during stop and go because it accelerates too much. It basically launches forwards. It used to be fine in early builds, but it's been pretty bad for awhile now.
Overall I love my Model 3 when I drive it manually, and its okay on the freeway while on AP as long it's not stop and go. The NoA never worked to the level I wanted to due to mapping issues. There is no way to report maps issues where Tesla fixes them.
With Rivian I expect to lose out on things I really like about Tesla like the trip planner, and the navigation is supposedly way worse.
In a lot of ways its going back to how things were with Tesla back in 2015 when I bought a Model S. Sure it didn't have all the features they now have, but it was an exciting time.
As long as Rivian gives me Dash Cam, Sentry Mode equivalent, and auto lane change with their driver+ system I'll be pretty happy.
Most of my decision really comes down to the fact that Rivian is the new shiny thing, and I've wanted a TRUE 4x4 EV for awhile.
Over the last decade or so the roads around me have really deteriorated. So I find myself more relaxed when I drive my Jeep as I can just run things over. I can also see over bushes that they never cut down just to see whether someone is coming when I turn onto a road.
If I keep driving my Model 3 I'll probably get arrested for taking a chain saw after bushes that grew too high to see over them.
If I do trade in my Model 3 what I'll miss the most is curvy Mountain roads.
What I won't miss is the Safety Score. Ugh, that sucked just so bad. So glad I finally got FSD beta so I wouldn't have to do that again. But, FSD Beta never really did much for me. If FSD beta did useful stuff I doubt I'd trade the Tesla in.
