Model Y P vs Rivian R1S

[S4WRXTTCS]

I love Tesla (has a M3 and will get my MY next week), but I also think FSD is a joke and I'm totally open to other EV brands such as Rivian. I'm just a consumer and have no brand loyalty...whoever makes the vehicle that meets my needs/budget will get my business

Were so early in the EV game that a person can't be brand loyal.

It's just not possible for a single vendor to offer all the EV's one might want.

Everyone knew the Model Y would be a huge cash cow, and will continue to be for awhile. It's a massive market segment. So its great for people that want that, and there are competitors in that market space to choose from.

With the Rivian R1T there really isn't anyone else that sells a capable 4x4 EV for adventuring.

With the Ford Lighting there really isn't anything like it, and I predict its going to be a massive success but also hard to get due to huge demand.

My next EV after the Rivian R1T is likely going to be a small EV like what Aptera is promising, but likely will never deliver. Just some ultra compact EV that has massive range.

Tesla along with EV's in general ripped open what had been a fairly closed market. People are so much more comfortable buying a vehicle from a company that isn't an established player.

 

[hulk]

I will be in the market for an EV as well, I do like few things about Tesla but also don't like the fact that for charging so much they don't offer some of the creature comforts at this price range, one of my beefs with German cars too they also upcharged for everything. I also want something reliable, I am rooting for Rivian, so there are at least two American startups in EV industry, not counting the legacy makers. end of this decade there will be much more choice at every price point for consumers.

For now I am considering the Tesla MY, but have to test drive it first to see if I like the ride comfort.

 

[astrobill]

Wow. your statement is totally in line with those anti Tesla biased media talking points with no factual base. GM's supercruise is only good for "mapped" highways, Ford = jokes, volvo = very basic adaptive cruise control and lane keeping assist is mostly good for straight highways.
Tesla is in fact years ahead of everyone else.
I don' t know where you get this idea of risen issues with the phantom braking after the updates. It keeps getting better, way better, and the majority of actual Tesla drivers agree:

Phantom Braking issues improved in 2022.4.5.17 update?

I've seen some reports on reddit of phantom braking being much improved in the latest software update when using cruise control, wondering if anyone here has noticed? I've been trying cruise control again a little bit the last two days and so far so good, but very small sample size so far.

teslamotorsclub.com

Ummm...I get the fact of dramatically increased reports of phantom braking in Teslas from...the dramatically increased reports of phantom braking from Tesla owners....numerous links following from actual news sources. Not sure that your posting other links from this forum that, in turn, link to pro-Tesla outlets as opposed to independent, third-party reporting is really helping your case.

For example:

Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse, and the US government has questions

From 350 to 750 complaints in four months.

www.theverge.com

Tesla has to respond to increase in phantom braking complaints

Tesla has to respond to an inquiry from NHTSA regarding the increasing number of phantom braking complaints that it has...

electrek.co

Number Of Tesla Owners Who Reported Phantom Braking Rises To 758

The NHTSA has now requested additional information from Tesla to get to the bottom of it, after the number of reports has doubled since February.

insideevs.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/02/02/tesla-phantom-braking/

Also, you don't really provide any basis for stating "Ford = jokes"...lol. Here's some actual reporting on which driver assistance features are the best. Also, sort of hard to refute the fact that I've got both the Volvo and the Model Y on my driveway and have driven both extensively together for over a year. Have you?

Which automaker has the best driver-assistance system?

Answer: Cadillac.

www.govtech.com

 

[DanDi58]

Not sure that your posting other links from this forum that, in turn, link to pro-Tesla outlets as opposed to independent, third-party reporting is really helping your case.

Right, because real-world experience by hundreds, if not thousands, of Tesla owners is useless. And MS media outlets have no agendas either.

 

[gt2690b]

when i convinced myself it was worth my money to buy a 52k car (what the model y LR AWD was at the time)... i looked at driving 200k miles and how much gas i would save.. so the efficiency for me is a pretty big deal.. if im not going to drive the rivian 200k miles then i can keep my old pickup/suv to handle the few times i need the space and/or off-road capability.. if i do drive it 200k miles with only 1/2 of the model y efficiency am i ever going to get my money back? the math is harder to convince myself on for the rivian.. that said i love the look and capability of it... much of me wants to say screw it you only live once

 

[kelpcar]

when i convinced myself it was worth my money to buy a 52k car (what the model y LR AWD was at the time)... i looked at driving 200k miles and how much gas i would save.. so the efficiency for me is a pretty big deal.. if im not going to drive the rivian 200k miles then i can keep my old pickup/suv to handle the few times i need the space and/or off-road capability.. if i do drive it 200k miles with only 1/2 of the model y efficiency am i ever going to get my money back? the math is harder to convince myself on for the rivian.. that said i love the look and capability of it... much of me wants to say screw it you only live once

I don't think it's half the efficiency - the EPA rating is 74, I believe, versus the 106 of the P and the 11x of the LR. What I'll want to see is the 70 mph range reports. But you're right - if you already have such a vehicle and can keep it for the less common use, much more efficient to stay with the Y.

I'm a 2 person, 1 driver household with a garage that fits 1.9 vehicles, so there's a strong reason for me to go jack of all trades (within reasonable limits). So tougher call.

My neighbor, the Rivian test engineer that parks a different R1T every night has had a test R1S here all weekend. It stirs 30 years worth of SUV advertising to me. If it drives like it looks...tough to resist.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I don't think it's half the efficiency - the EPA rating is 74, I believe, versus the 106 of the P and the 11x of the LR. What I'll want to see is the 70 mph range reports. But you're right - if you already have such a vehicle and can keep it for the less common use, much more efficient to stay with the Y.

I'm a 2 person, 1 driver household with a garage that fits 1.9 vehicles, so there's a strong reason for me to go jack of all trades (within reasonable limits). So tougher call.

My neighbor, the Rivian test engineer that parks a different R1T every night has had a test R1S here all weekend. It stirs 30 years worth of SUV advertising to me. If it drives like it looks...tough to resist.

I've been hearing some rather fairlytale like energy consumption for the R1T when doing <70mph (or at 70mph).

Things like 350wh/mile.

Sure my Tesla Model 3 Performance can do that, but not really that much better. So I find it a bit surprising, but maybe I shouldn't be. Maybe its just tougher to get that mass moving than it is keeping that mass moving.

The R1T has like double the battery size of the Model 3.

The SUV I find tough to resist is the new defender. It just looks so awesome.

 

[Mulkogi]

As soon as other charging infrastructure becomes Tesla level im jumping ships head first.

Hopefully that happens when my r1s comes lol

 

[gt2690b]

I've been hearing some rather fairlytale like energy consumption for the R1T when doing <70mph (or at 70mph).

Things like 350wh/mile.

Sure my Tesla Model 3 Performance can do that, but not really that much better. So I find it a bit surprising, but maybe I shouldn't be. Maybe its just tougher to get that mass moving than it is keeping that mass moving.

The R1T has like double the battery size of the Model 3.

The SUV I find tough to resist is the new defender. It just looks so awesome.

the sites i have seen are reporting about ~480 wh/mi very close to the EPA rating ... for the price the rivian is still an absolute steal though.. you are getting 1.6x the battery size for almost the same price

 

[nate704]

the sites i have seen are reporting about ~480 wh/mi very close to the EPA rating ... for the price the rivian is still an absolute steal though.. you are getting 1.6x the battery size for almost the same price

Getting bigger battery doesn't matter especially when you get less range with bigger battery.

 

[Jayohee]

The R1T is a great option for people looking for more storage and a truck bed. The cons IMO are the size of the bed (not great if your work requires full size) and software. I think they’ll get there with the SW but not for another year or two.

I’m a suburb guy and camping/outdoors stuff isn’t my thing. So I went with the Y.

 

[gx9901]

I've seen a couple of R1T's (one of them with a manufacturer plate) around where I live, and they look pretty good. They actually don't look as big as they do in pictures and videos, which is a plus in my book. The Rivians certainly look like extremely compelling products on paper, but I would be a little weary of issues that might lead to long term problems, such as the compressor for the air suspension (I've heard that they can overheat and someone has one that adjusts for no reason). But, to my mild surprise, there is actually a Rivian service center in my metro area, so that checks a box that I must have for any EV. If Rivian is still around and going strong by the time I'm ready to get a new vehicle, I would certainly take a good look at them.

 

[TomServo]

So how are these cars similar? What are your needs?

 

[Suns_PSD]

@Suns_PSD Looking through your post history I have to ask: Do you have a Tesla vehicle, or one on order? If not, why are you here?

If you do have a Tesla and you're as unhappy with it as you sound, how about selling it while used car prices are still sky-high?

This is a lot of angst over a car. Life is short and there are many cars out there. If you really dislike Teslas that much, such that you can only ever complain about them here, move on!

I happen to agree with some of your points, but they don't negate what I do like about the cars. And many of your complaints are easily avoided. FSD is oversold and a terrible value at $10k+? Sure I agree. Don't buy it, problem avoided. Rivian R1S pre-increase was a better value than a Model Y at recent pricing? Yes in several ways...go hang out at a Rivian forum while you're waiting for your R1S! Don't dwell or get stuck on all the products out there that you don't like.

I do not own a Tesla but had a deposit on the CT when I joined.

As it stands I'll be buying a GM EV first unless something changes because I think it's a more thoroughly tested vehicle, and a better value . Which is why I have a deposit and order number on a Lyriq.

However, this is the best EV forum that I've encountered with the most actual user experience. As such there is a lot of value to be had around here. It would be more useful if the level of fanboy-ism was dialed way back. But just what I've learned about battery charging strategies alone here, is something that no other forum has mass experience with.

That said, it's true that my mild fascination with Tesla products has faded, which is a direct contradiction to most posters on this forum. I'm not down on them, just see them as over-rated for what they cost. I find the charm in Tesla's is the EV portion, not the Tesla portion. And the EV portion is about to not be unique, at all.

Also, Tesla's leadership seems to be reckless among other complaints I could post, but won't. Truthfully I'm not in to the whole 'political signaling' with my purchasing thing. But as a stock holder, Musk's behavior is, not helpful this last year.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Were so early in the EV game that a person can't be brand loyal.

It's just not possible for a single vendor to offer all the EV's one might want.

Everyone knew the Model Y would be a huge cash cow, and will continue to be for awhile. It's a massive market segment. So its great for people that want that, and there are competitors in that market space to choose from.

With the Rivian R1T there really isn't anyone else that sells a capable 4x4 EV for adventuring.

With the Ford Lighting there really isn't anything like it, and I predict its going to be a massive success but also hard to get due to huge demand.

My next EV after the Rivian R1T is likely going to be a small EV like what Aptera is promising, but likely will never deliver. Just some ultra compact EV that has massive range.

Tesla along with EV's in general ripped open what had been a fairly closed market. People are so much more comfortable buying a vehicle from a company that isn't an established player.

The segment is evolving very quickly, which makes it very interesting for auto enthusiasts.

Where-as with ICE products they had really narrowed down the best ways to drive and do things and were all quite similar within their respective segments.

Some EV specific ideas will die, and some will take off and become the standard.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Getting bigger battery doesn't matter especially when you get less range with bigger battery.

Batteries are very expensive and the size of the battery pack should be reflected in the vehicle's purchase price. It's about value and dealing with eventual degradation.

Sure the Rivian isn't as efficient as the MY, but then again it's 2x the vehicle. Your argument is like saying 'your King Ranch SuperDuty isn't as efficient as my base Ranger'. Umm, yah I know.

If charging speeds aren't terribly important to you (they are not to me for instance as my EV will only be a local vehicle) any change in efficiency is pretty unimportant, because fueling up is so darn cheap anyways. I mean, I always bought the most powerful V8 in my ICE SUVs so clearly just economy is not the only factor in a vehicle purchase.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I've been hearing some rather fairlytale like energy consumption for the R1T when doing <70mph (or at 70mph).

Things like 350wh/mile.

Sure my Tesla Model 3 Performance can do that, but not really that much better. So I find it a bit surprising, but maybe I shouldn't be. Maybe its just tougher to get that mass moving than it is keeping that mass moving.

The R1T has like double the battery size of the Model 3.

The SUV I find tough to resist is the new defender. It just looks so awesome.

At steady state cruising speeds on flat ground, aero is the only thing that effects efficiency. Mass has no effect at all.

The problem is that real driving always has stop/ go & hills where mass definitely matters.

 

[boulder.dude]

Sure the Rivian isn't as efficient as the MY, but then again it's 2x the vehicle. Your argument is like saying 'your King Ranch SuperDuty isn't as efficient as my base Ranger'.

A corollary to lower efficiency is a smaller “range penalty” from towing, cold temps, and rain, which suits the Rivian use case well. (Maybe the “wind penalty” would be a bit worse, though.)

 

[kelpcar]

Getting bigger battery doesn't matter especially when you get less range with bigger battery.

it's not getting less range, however. Testers seem to confirm the 316/314 mile range, while we know that's not true for the Y, and esp the YP.

 

[nate704]

75 kwh for 330 miles vs 105 kwh for 230 miles or 135 kwh for 300 miles or 180kwh for 400 miles.