Model Y P vs Rivian R1S

[thesmokingman]

I initially had thought the R1s were in the ballpark of 7000 lbs, but looks like its mid 5s, just 1000 more than the Y.

Every spec I've seen lists it at just under 7k lbs. What have you found that says its 5k lbs? The lowest from one place electricvehiclespecs lists it at under 6k lbs but I think that's not real. It's the same platform as the R1T, so it would be pretty remarkable if they were able to shave 1000 ilbs off.

Rivian R1T/R1S Charging Power Peaks At 210 kW

New data about the Rivian R1T and Rivian R1S vehicles were found in the EPA's certification document, listed on the rivianownersforum.com forum.

insideevs.com

 

[kelpcar]

Every spec I've seen lists it at just under 7k lbs. What have you found that says its 5k lbs? The lowest from one place electricvehiclespecs lists it at under 6k lbs but I think that's not real. It's the same platform as the R1T, so it would be pretty remarkable if they were able to shave 1000 ilbs off.

Rivian R1T/R1S Charging Power Peaks At 210 kW

New data about the Rivian R1T and Rivian R1S vehicles were found in the EPA's certification document, listed on the rivianownersforum.com forum.

insideevs.com

Can never find the info I'm looking for on the Rivian site, so now I'm questioning where I was reading it too. The 5800 figure does show up in a number of spots, as do the 71xx ones, but my memory is convinced I saw something closer to 5600 in an official seeming source.

It does defy belief given the size of the 135KWh battery and larger footprint.

 

[thesmokingman]

Can never find the info I'm looking for on the Rivian site, so now I'm questioning where I was reading it too. The 5800 figure does show up in a number of spots, as do the 71xx ones, but my memory is convinced I saw something closer to 5600 in an official seeming source.

It does defy belief given the size of the 135KWh battery and larger footprint.

I think a lot of the lower numbers are BS. Even the Riv forum lists the 180kwh vehicle as 5800lbs, like who are they kidding. Also Edmunds tested the R1T and has it as 7145lbs iirc.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

R1T is more for rich people who love to go outdoor doing camping, semi off road stuff, definitely not for construction work.

Exactly (except for the rich part as it's really not any more expensive than other similar vehicles).

It's for people like me who want to go on an Adventure, and to take their stuff with them.

I'll be taking things like my folding Kayak, inflatable self-powered paddle board, electric longboard, and e-bikes.

I might get a tent for it to do a day or two of camping while on an adventure. Or I might by a small towable camper.

One of the first things I'll do is explore a bit of the western side of the TransAmerica trail.

Rivian has be marketing pretty majorly to adventure buffs. Things like getting their vehicles as support vehicles on the long way up show on Apple TV which is a great show.

I've never owned a Truck before, and I honestly probably won't think of it as a truck.

In terms of sales I do expect the F-150 Lighting to sell more, and in fact I think people are going to be hard pressed to get one due to sheer demand. In so many ways its the perfect vehicle for a contractor.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Can never find the info I'm looking for on the Rivian site, so now I'm questioning where I was reading it too. The 5800 figure does show up in a number of spots, as do the 71xx ones, but my memory is convinced I saw something closer to 5600 in an official seeming source.

It does defy belief given the size of the 135KWh battery and larger footprint.

I wonder if the lower weight was some other configuration like a small battery and two motors?

The R1T with the large size battery, and the Quad motors is a hefty 7,173 pounds.

What's hilarious is the 0-60 time of it is about the same a Tesla Model 3 Performance that weighs almost half as less.

 

[nate704]

I wonder if the lower weight was some other configuration like a small battery and two motors?

The R1T with the large size battery, and the Quad motors is a hefty 7,173 pounds.

What's hilarious is the 0-60 time of it is about the same a Tesla Model 3 Performance that weighs almost half as less.

I think it is due to R1T has 4 motors vs 2 motors with differentials which has drive train loss. But M3P's almost twice more efficient.

 

[thesmokingman]

I wonder if the lower weight was some other configuration like a small battery and two motors?

The R1T with the large size battery, and the Quad motors is a hefty 7,173 pounds.

What's hilarious is the 0-60 time of it is about the same a Tesla Model 3 Performance that weighs almost half as less.

That's what is sketchy, accelerating over 7k lbs to 60 in 3 secs and change. Worse yet do the same with over 9k lbs (hello Hummer) at a similar clip. And as mentioned by nate, these things are worse then abysmal at efficiency.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I don't they are ambitious as Ford is with the F150 providing 9.6KW.

Ha, yeah the Rivian you have to keep it under 1500 watts

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

That's what is sketchy, accelerating over 7k lbs to 60 in 3 secs and change. Worse yet do the same with over 9k lbs (hello Hummer) at a similar clip. And as mentioned by nate, these things are worse then abysmal at efficiency.

I can't wait to see a Hummer driver doing 60 behind semi trucks in the right lane to get a bit more of a buffer before the next charging stop.

 

[thesmokingman]

I can't wait to see a Hummer driver doing 60 behind semi trucks in the right lane to get a bit more of a buffer before the next charging stop.

TBF though I'm betting buyers of these are not considering efficiency or any other factors like that.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

TBF though I'm betting buyers of these are not considering efficiency or any other factors like that.

I think it happens to all of us EV owners at one point or another.

I wonder if GM will have the "drive below 60mph to reach your destination" feature.

 

[Suns_PSD]

The Rivian SUV has a shorter WB than the truck, smaller battery back, and possibly some other stuff that reduces weight.

Odd that in the interest of faster development and saving money they didn't utilize the exact same platform.

 

[kelpcar]

The Rivian SUV has a shorter WB than the truck, smaller battery back, and possibly some other stuff that reduces weight.

Odd that in the interest of faster development and saving money they didn't utilize the exact same platform.

same 135KWh battery pack. But no option for the oversized one.

 

[DanDi58]

In terms of sales I do expect the F-150 Lighting to sell more, and in fact I think people are going to be hard pressed to get one due to sheer demand. In so many ways its the perfect vehicle for a contractor.

I hope this is the case because the Lightning has the potential to replace a lot more ICE trucks than the Rivian does.

 

[Erleichda]

Lots of great thoughts here. I just compared builds for a R1S vs Model Y. I tried to keep as similar as possible.
MY: LR, tow hitch, 7 seats, EAP, 320 mi: $79k
R1S: Explore, Dual motor, large battery 320 mi: $78500 with tax credit...

I mean, why would anyone buy a Y? Charging network, available soon, don't need 7 seats. But for us we are going to go with the R1S.

 

[Made in CA]

The R1S is 18 months out if you reserve one today. Rivian is not committing to an ordered price anymore. They learned their lesson. It will be a lot more than $78,500 when you get it. The dual motor version will not be available for at least 2 years.

 

[ohmman]

I canceled my R1T reservation in January (which would likely have been delivered at this point) and ordered a Model Y. My reasons were timing and efficiency. We tow our Airstream with our Model X, and I thought the R1T would make for a nice tow vehicle since I'd have all that bed space for storage. Things can get tight in the X with four people. I also live on a 3 acre rural ranch that I manage myself, and having a pickup sounded convenient. In the end, though, I realized I wouldn't ever drive it with the lack of efficiency. I'd always drive the X and the R1T would mostly just sit in the garage waiting for the occasional camping trip or hauling event.

I'm replacing my 2014 Model S P85 with the Y. I'm a little sad about it, and maybe I'll cancel at the last minute - but having something more upright is better for my back and having AWD is helpful for those trips to Tahoe in the winter when then X is being used by my wife.

 

[tm1v2]

The R1S is 18 months out if you reserve one today. Rivian is not committing to an ordered price anymore. They learned their lesson. It will be a lot more than $78,500 when you get it. The dual motor version will not be available for at least 2 years.

I'm a big fan of the Rivian vehicles and my wife has an R1T reservation, but I think this is spot on. I can't see the R1S ever competing on price vs Model Y going forward (beyond the one-off honoring of early reservations). Consider how well-optimized all of Tesla's costs are, how much simpler a vehicle the Model Y is, Tesla's purchasing power for supplies/materials, etc. *If* Rivian manages to ramp up R1S production someday, and the R1S is still priced close to a Model Y, I guarantee Tesla will have WAY more profit margin in the Y pricing and will cut into it if needed to defend their market share.

I think R1S vs Model X is actually the more interesting and relevant comparison. If Rivian is successful at ramping up the R1S, and it's still cheaper than a base X, Tesla might have to cut X prices a bit to compete. Again though, I can't see Rivian sustainably competing with Tesla on price + volume for a long while.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I canceled my R1T reservation in January (which would likely have been delivered at this point) and ordered a Model Y. My reasons were timing and efficiency. We tow our Airstream with our Model X, and I thought the R1T would make for a nice tow vehicle since I'd have all that bed space for storage. Things can get tight in the X with four people. I also live on a 3 acre rural ranch that I manage myself, and having a pickup sounded convenient. In the end, though, I realized I wouldn't ever drive it with the lack of efficiency. I'd always drive the X and the R1T would mostly just sit in the garage waiting for the occasional camping trip or hauling event.

I'm replacing my 2014 Model S P85 with the Y. I'm a little sad about it, and maybe I'll cancel at the last minute - but having something more upright is better for my back and having AWD is helpful for those trips to Tahoe in the winter when then X is being used by my wife.

I think you screwed up.

In my experience on road trips the R1T is surprisingly efficient. In fact I was able to go 244+ miles with an 85% charge, and I still had 10% left in range.
Having the extra clearance and the true off road capability is nice.
The tunnel is pretty awesome, and great for storing stuff
They do have gear guard which is basically sentry mode taken to the next level where you can secure something like a bike to it.

There are some negatives, but I don't think anything is a deal killer. Things like it doesn't have a dash cam feature yet, but they're supposedly working on it.

Even if you ended up not wanting to keep it you could have resold it, and made a nice profit due to Rivian honoring the reservation price (which I didn't agree with, but that's completely besides the point).

If you ever get a chance I'd recommend renting one, and testing it out for your use cases.

 

[voxel]

The way I see it is the Model X, R1S, and EV9 compete in the same space. The Model Y is too small.

The X is a performance SUV (especially with the Plaid config). The EV9 will be a budgety family EV (Kia will most likely use a smaller battery to reduce costs much like how the EV6 is on the lower end of EV battery sizes). R1S is somewhere in the middle depending how configured.