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Model Y to be based on Model 3 after all

Discussion in 'Model Y' started by BluestarE3, Aug 2, 2017.

  1. boofagle

    boofagle Member

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    this might be more your style

    This Electric Truck Is One Part Defender, One Part Tesla

    It's basically an electric Jeep/Land Rover. Drag must be a b*tch because it has a 100kWh battery but only ~200 miles.
     
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  2. KarenRei

    KarenRei ᴉǝɹuǝɹɐʞ

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    Its shape is an aerodynamic nightmare. I can't imagine why they did that. It's like we're back in 1920.
     
  3. SwTslaGrl

    SwTslaGrl Member

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    The B1 could work here, I go for months around 30mph in urban and industrial areas..
     
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  4. Laban

    Laban Member

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    It's utility in my opinion. You can make a Model 3 length SUV a 7 seater but of course get limited reusability from the Model 3. Something like the VW Allspace that i mentioned in the "ready for a station wagon.. " thread:

    [​IMG]

    Or you can go the station-wagon route and reuse most of the Model 3 by doing something like the Volvo V60 cross-country:

    [​IMG]

    It's ~4 inches lower so you'd loose the 7 seat option. But gain a lot when it comes to reusability from the Model 3. And of course, 4 inches lower = lower costs and/or greater range.
     
  5. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    I think they did that to telegraph to people that it's intended to be crawling over rocks at two miles per hour or down rough dirt trails at thirty, rather than zipping along the megaslab at seventy.

    There's a certain crowd that will likely respect it more for that, and for the lack of interior electronics (which is the part I'm most disappointed by.)
     
  6. boofagle

    boofagle Member

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    #25 boofagle, Aug 3, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
    and with the right waterproofing it could be a sub in streams. EVs will truly revolutionize the off road industry when the segment becomes more mature.

    To me, "SUV" is a name for a form factor. A rear wheel drive Ford Ranger isn't as capable as the Ford Raptor even though they're both trucks.
     
  7. omarsultan

    omarsultan Active Member

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    I was happy to hear this news. It’s good to see them start to simply product development and not just product manufacturing.

    We have an X and we have been happy with the FWDs. I am not sure they are a “must have” feature on the Model Y but two things to consider:
    • They become a marquee feature in a crowded category
    • They have already gone through all the pain of working out the kinks with the Model X FWDs so the second gen should be an improvement on all fronts
    Styling-wise, I think you will see something that looks like a longer, higher Model 3 to keep the family resemblance going.
     
  8. Magus

    Magus Member

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    The falcon wings are great. They seem easy to adjust from the servicing perspective. I would prefer no falcon wing doors on the model Y to keep the model X exclusive. Not due to issues.
     
  9. jeffhre

    jeffhre Member

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    How does air under a vehicle become favorable?
     
  10. KarenRei

    KarenRei ᴉǝɹuǝɹɐʞ

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    Ground interaction. Greater distance = lower underbody freestream velocity; combined with greater distance = reduced shear, higher underbody pressure, reduced need to expand the flow behind the vehicle, lower downforce (you want lift-neutral when the goal is efficiency), reduced viscous interaction = reduced diagonal flow up the sides = smaller trailing vortices, etc, etc, etc.

    A traditional car with a rough underside and non-aerodynamic wheels can suffer increasing drag with increasing ground clearance because a low clearance helps suppress the turbulent vortices formed underneath. But the more the shape moves in the direction of a "streamliner", the better that increasing ground separation (generally) becomes.

    To get a sense of how profound of an effect the combination of traditional automotive form factors and ground interaction (as well as the interaction with the moving surfaces of the wheels) has in comparison to shapes optimized for aerodynamics without ground interaction, compare car drag coefficients with aircraft ones. The Model 3 has a Cd=0,23, which is actually quite impressive for a car. But it'd be a disaster for an airplane. Even a Cessna with non-retractable landing gear will generally have a drag coefficient nearly an order of magnitude less than that when flying out of ground effect.
     
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  11. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    I agree, but 80% of the "SUV"s are minivans with a nose, its all marketing using the same parts that they recycle on many of their models. Mommy wants a Mall Crawler SUV... I'm actually glad they are using the same platform as the 3, but thats not the car for me, if if they add Falcon Wing Doors or stupid middle seats that don't fold down for a flat cargo area - I would never buy it.
     
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  12. wdolson

    wdolson Well-Known Member

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    My SO has pretty much the same opinion. She would love something more like an Outback. AWD is a must for her too.
     
  13. zambono

    zambono Active Member

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    Don't like it. I do like Defenders. This just looks like a cheap knock off
     
  14. EchoDelta

    EchoDelta Member

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    So that adding decorative exterior wood paneling is easy! j/k.
    I love the design philosophy of that truck - I hope they ship it and that the product holds to the initial claims.
    /offtopic.

    For the Model Y, I don't think Tesla will go in that direction, but I'd love it if they could match the utilitarian use of interior space the old '98/'99 Honda CRVs had.
     
  15. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 100D 2019.28.3.1

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    Don't forget about the '97s as well! I just sold mine a couple months ago, after 20+ years of ownership. I'm happy to have my S but the dogs miss getting to go for rides. We're looking forward to the Model Y.
     
  16. Snow Drift

    Snow Drift Slip Start: [Activated]

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    We have a Subaru XV Crosstrek Hybrid, which is basically a Subaru Impreza hatchback w/ 8.7" of ground clearance and some more masculine styling...we love it. The Model Y will probably join our future M3. The extra space of the hatch and the added ground clearance are nice and it's fun to have two different body styles in our stable.
     
  17. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    +1 on the Y. If it weren't for getting $9500 off with NY and fed. credits. I might have passed on the 3. Still not sure what i'll do. But I see myself as a future Model Y customer :)
     
  18. KarenRei

    KarenRei ᴉǝɹuǝɹɐʞ

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    Say Model Y comes out 2 years later than you get your 3 - you eat 2 years of depreciation. Keep the car in good shape and it shouldn't be that bad :) Might actually be a net positive because the expiration of the credit should be a huge boost to used market values (that is, used vehicles would be competing with new vehicles that are now effectively $7500 more expensive)
     
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  19. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    Thanks for giving me SOMETHING ELSE! to confuse the issue now :)
    Outlook from a different angle though
     
  20. arnis

    arnis Member

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    Model Y will very likely seat exactly 5 people (with much more cargo room compared to M3).
    One functional reason X had FWD's was 3rd row access.
    If there is no 3rd row, there will less reason to have FWD's.
    Electrically actuated FWD for driver entrance is absolutely not acceptable in terms of rapidness.
    Also there is not enough playroom to make lot's of expensive gadgets on a vehicle that costs 40k.
    The biggest difference will be the rear part anyway (remember, MY will be based on M3).
    Nose will be stubby like M3. Clearance will be larger, though less than MX.
    Windscreen will be around the same as M3, panorama roof extending behind rear passenger heads
    (like Model S plus at least 10cm, 4", aka MS design flaw fix) and much more practical trunk, likely
    hatchback, but much steeper - with best aerodynamics vs cargo capacity possible.
    I expect something like BMW 3-series GT, though longer passenger compartment/cargo area due to no engine.
    And also higher than that to make it more like CUV.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    So yea. Same nose, likely same front doors, more mom-friendly rear doors with more head entrance clearance, longer trunk (20cm?),
    more likely to have roof rack possibility. Not likely to have sunroof option (only glass roof). Likely 18" and 19" wheels (bigger sidewalls possible). Similar color options (same paint line). Same driveunit(s). RWD and AWD offered forever (RWD will not be dropped).
    Same battery pack dimensions and parameters (same as S vs X). Same onboard charger. Same HVAC, same dash.
    This is the only way to keep Tesla's reliability above average - they can't make new stuff from ground up again and again.
    (watch latest ConsumerReports videos about vehicle manufacturer reliability data).

    So in around 2020, Tesla will offer these passenger vehicles (model Y ramp-up will be much faster compared to Model 3):
    Roadster2, as a fun sports car for enthusiasts.
    Model S, as an expensive premium large liftback
    Model X, as an expensive premium SUV vehicle
    Model 3, as a practical mid-class sporty sedan
    Model Y, as a practical mid-class CUV hatchback

    PS: BMW 3-series is categorized as entry-level luxury (compact executive) car.
    Model 3 is not compact, being wider and longer. Nor is it luxury (somewhat opposite to sporty).

    I expect Model Y will cost almost the same as Model 3. Close competitor should likely be something like BMW 3-series touring or GT.
    I expect 1500-2000€ difference in starting price and not a long options list (towing capability might be the most notable feature difference). Performance M3 will outperform performance MY (same as S vs X).

    Tesla will likely never make entry-level passenger vehicle (anything cheaper than Model 3 SR).
    I would also not bet on a regular pickup truck. Other manufacturers should pick up by then anyway (competition).
    Practicality of a "passenger class pick-up truck", no matter how you twist it, makes little sense.
    Tesla doesn't have to do every kind of vehicle on the market to accelerate sustainable transportation.
    Most vehicle manufacturers limit their field. Let's keep Tesla sexy.
    Also accelerating US specifically (Asia&Europe are absolutely not interested in pickups) has little effect. Also it is a wrong direction
    to accelerate after all. Cargo haulers, busses, worldwide charging infrastructure. Much more important on this planet.

    Huh, that should be enough.
     
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  21. Daniel_R

    Daniel_R Member

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    I think (and hope) that the Model Y will be more like the BMW X3, with higher gound clearance and a more upright seating postiion. In the Master Plan, Tesla called it a "compact SUV". Too me, a GT-style Model Y is too close to the Model 3 for Tesla (that does not have an X3 sized car).

    Looking at cargo space, the difference between the GT and X3 is actually less than I thought,

    BMW 3 sedan: 13.0 cu ft
    BMW 3 GT: 24.6 cu ft
    BMW X3: 27.6 cu ft

    Tesla Model S: 26.3 cu ft
    Tesla Model X: 88.1 cu ft

    With the frunk, I'm hoping that the Y can approach 35 cu ft of total cargo space.

    Daniel
     

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