Model Y Updates to Model 3. USB-C, Wireless Charging, Heat Pump ?

[jeremymc7]

So we're already seen some of the nearly manufactured Model 3's coming out of Fremont has the Model Y USB-C ports and included wireless phone charging. Unless people are fibbing that is.

Obviously a change in ports and including a wireless charger is low hanging fruit and easy to implement.

Is Model 3 likely to get the heat pump HVAC or is that too much of a build change to bother with for years. Other priorities and all.

Which bring to question how much more efficiency would the heat pump even add to the Model 3?

 

[XLR82XS]

Your speculation is probably common among most. Time to speak to the engineering department at Tesla if you can. Tesla is known for their secretive MO.

 

[SammichLover]

Is Model 3 likely to get the heat pump HVAC or is that too much of a build change to bother with for years.

The Model 3 already has a heat pump. The Model Y moved the heat pump's location under the hood, from the far passenger side to in front of the driver, and heavily modified the plumbing. That'd represent a good deal of engineering work, might be tight (I'm not sure about what differences there are in dimensions under the frunk, but on first blush seems a significant but doable project. No idea about what priority Tesla puts on it, if they'd be willing to spend the turn-around time and take the risk of most significant re-tool of the Model 3 line that's ever been attempted for the goal of adding lower energy use heating?

My guess is "no" but nothing I'd stake much on.

EDIT: I expect change that'll would get done ahead of this is the redo of the rear unibody design. Replacing the metal jigsaw puzzle trunk and rear suspension area with the much simplified 2-piece forged one with a plastic fibre glass tub for the sub-trunk that the Y has. Also a pretty major retooling but towards cutting manufacturing cost and improving QC.

 

[acarney]

The Model 3 already has a heat pump. The Model Y moved the heat pump's location under the hood, from the far passenger side to in front of the driver, and heavily modified the plumbing. That'd represent a good deal of engineering work, might be tight (I'm not sure about what differences there are in dimensions under the frunk, but on first blush seems a significant but doable project. No idea about what priority Tesla puts on it, if they'd be willing to spend the turn-around time and take the risk of most significant re-tool of the Model 3 line that's ever been attempted for the goal of adding lower energy use heating?

My guess is "no" but nothing I'd stake much on.

EDIT: I expect change that'll would get done ahead of this is the redo of the rear unibody design. Replacing the metal jigsaw puzzle trunk and rear suspension area with the much simplified 2-piece forged one with a plastic fibre glass tub for the sub-trunk that the Y has. Also a pretty major retooling but towards cutting manufacturing cost and improving QC.

Currently the Model 3 doesn’t use a heat pump. It’s resistance hearing which works extremely fast (within 5 seconds you have high heat) and very well in low temps (I can have like 80 F air blowing at me when it’s 20F outside) but it also sucks down a lot of energy...

 

[SammichLover]

Currently the Model 3 doesn’t use a heat pump.

The Supercan is a heat pump. It is only used for cooling in the 3 but that is very much a heat pump, and works on the same principles as the one in the Y. The major difference in the Y is in the plumbing around it, allowing it to also work in the reverse direction of moving heat to the cabin rather than just away from it.

 

[jeremymc7]

Currently the Model 3 doesn’t use a heat pump. It’s resistance hearing which works extremely fast (within 5 seconds you have high heat) and very well in low temps (I can have like 80 F air blowing at me when it’s 20F outside) but it also sucks down a lot of energy...

This is what I thought and stated by several tear down videos. Model Y is supposed to have MUCH more efficient HVAC (compared to M3) in certain weather reasons anyway. Along with the higher weight and worse (though still impressive) aerodynamics of MY vs. M3 the heat pump it's supposed to help (notably) with the MPGe rating. Don't know how much it would help in a 3. New battery type with lower weight and / or better density likely is a better update for owners.

I guess maybe the major difference between My and M3 HVAC. MY is more efficient for heating (maybe cooling) and M3 is faster for cooling. I don't know the MPGe different everything else being equal. If it was notable I'd rather have the MY system. That said I'm in SoCal and cooling is required much more often.

 

[SammichLover]

One thing I haven't heard about is whether or not the Y has a resistor heat back-up to the heat pump. Without that I'm not sure they'd be able to do the classic "run heat and A/C at the same time to combat window fogging"? That'd be a real trick if they have set up the plumbing to be able to do that without resistive heat.

 

[acarney]

One thing I haven't heard about is whether or not the Y has a resistor heat back-up to the heat pump. Without that I'm not sure they'd be able to do the classic "run heat and A/C at the same time to combat window fogging"? That'd be a real trick if they have set up the plumbing to be able to do that without resistive heat.

They must have some way to generate high heat in cold weather. You don’t want 70F air blowing on you at a fairly high speed... that would actually feel like a cool fan was turned on, even if outside was 25F. You want enough heat load that you can have the fan speeds set fairly low once the cabin is up to temp, or you want to be able to generate pretty warm air.

Have people put their hand next to a vent in a house with a heat pump in the winter and 9 times out of 10 they’ll say it’s blowing cold air. Look at a thermal image or IR temp of it and it will be a few degrees above ambient temperatures and WILL be adding heat to the room, but it won’t be hot enough for the body to FEEL like it’s hot air blowing at them.

I also am very curious about its ultimate capacity. The 3 can turn on like 5 to 8 kW of heating and get a rock cold cabin up to 70F in like 60 seconds... can the heat pump do that? If it’s only able to output like 2 or 3kW in the real cold (20 to 30F) it might take like three or four minutes to heat up...

Not terrible if you always precondition, but kinda a pain if you’re making a bunch of short in town stops to every 10 minutes pull your phone out in the store to turn the car on...

 

[acarney]

The Supercan is a heat pump. It is only used for cooling in the 3 but that is very much a heat pump, and works on the same principles as the one in the Y. The major difference in the Y is in the plumbing around it, allowing it to also work in the reverse direction of moving heat to the cabin rather than just away from it.

I don’t believe that’s fully true. It doesn’t have a compressor. It has a heat exchanger and some integrated pumps (did moving coolant), but I think it’s main operation is circulating fluid around the battery and electronics and using a fluid to fluid heat exchanger to pull heat away. I’m pretty sure the model 3 has a standard air conditioning compressor...

 

[SammichLover]

They must have some way to generate high heat in cold weather. You don’t want 70F air blowing on you at a fairly high speed... that would actually feel like a cool fan was turned on, even if outside was 25F.

You really don't need it blowing directly on your body, though. You just need it on the windows and to help maintain ambient, so HVAC programing to avoid using the dash vents would prevent that issue. Humans tend to be able to keep a confined bubble like the cabin quite warm. I've driven in -30C at 110kph speeds with no heater (in a Chevette). Cabin temperature itself wasn't really the issue, the root issue was the moisture from breathing. To try clear that you have to bring in inordinate amounts of fresh air, to the point of partially rolling down a window, and even then expect to be periodically using an ice scraper on the inside of the windshield.

If you could circulate air through A/C to condensate the water out and then reheat from the compressor side of the heat pump loop you could fairly efficiency recapture the human sourced heat to maintain cabin temp. Having a back-up resistive heating element would make it a lot simpler though, and also be there for a lot faster warming up from a cold vehicle.

 

[SammichLover]

I don’t believe that’s fully true. It doesn’t have a compressor.

Well then they'd need an evaporation based cooling tower to chill the cabin on hot summer days, and those are pretty hard to miss.

LOL

✪ 2017 - 2020 TESLA MODEL 3 AC A/C COMPRESSOR PUMP W/ COVER & HARNESS & BRACKET | eBay

 

[acarney]

Well then they'd need an evaporation based cooling tower to chill the cabin on hot summer days, and those are pretty hard to miss.

LOL

✪ 2017 - 2020 TESLA MODEL 3 AC A/C COMPRESSOR PUMP W/ COVER & HARNESS & BRACKET | eBay

That’s not part of the Superbottle.... I think that’s a standard AC compressor

 

[MP3Mike]

Is Model 3 likely to get the heat pump HVAC or is that too much of a build change to bother with for years.

It will come eventually, but probably not soon. First reason is they want to work the kinks out in the Model Y first. There have been a number of people with issues where the HVAC wasn't working correctly in the Model Y. (Though it has been reported that 2020.20 is supposed to resolve those issues.)

So I would expect Tesla to go through at least a year to cover all of the seasons before they update the Model 3.

Of course you will likely know when they implement it as they will increase the EPA range by ~10%.

 

[SammichLover]

That’s not part of the Superbottle.... I think that’s a standard AC compressor

ROFL It is the Superbottle, that's what it is. ((Sorry, had the cute name wrong.))

I don’t believe that’s fully true. It doesn’t have a compressor.

It is a compressor. The Model 3 has a compressor. It isn't set up to move heat both ways, it only "pumps" it in one direction, but it uses the exact same physical exothermic/endothermic property of gas compression/decompression. That's how "A/C" generally works (unless you're using a evaporation tower, but that's very large, unwieldy and needs a water supply so generally not very well suited for vehicles).

 

[needp3d-]

People already getting USB-C ports in their MIC model 3 and charging pads. Not sure about the heat pump.

 

[smatthew]

I'd be just as interested in the question: When does the model 3 get a casting like the Y? I bet that's multiple years away. I doubt they'll start back porting Model Y improvements to the 3 until they have a solid track record and have the kinks worked out.

 

[jeremymc7]

I'd be just as interested in the question: When does the model 3 get a casting like the Y? I bet that's multiple years away. I doubt they'll start back porting Model Y improvements to the 3 until they have a solid track record and have the kinks worked out.

There would be some obvious cost savings, reduced complexity, and structural improvements for sure.

Personally I’m more focused on new features, extended range, and increased efficiency and without raising the price of the car ideally.

 

[Zoomit]

I'd be just as interested in the question: When does the model 3 get a casting like the Y? I bet that's multiple years away. I doubt they'll start back porting Model Y improvements to the 3 until they have a solid track record and have the kinks worked out.

Elon stated, in maybe the Third Row Tesla interview, that it might happen in about 2 years, IIRC. It clearly wasn’t a priority, and based on his consideration of the response not something he had thought about much.

 

[acarney]

ROFL It is the Superbottle, that's what it is. ((Sorry, had the cute name wrong.))

It is a compressor. The Model 3 has a compressor. It isn't set up to move heat both ways, it only "pumps" it in one direction, but it uses the exact same physical exothermic/endothermic property of gas compression/decompression. That's how "A/C" generally works (unless you're using a evaporation tower, but that's very large, unwieldy and needs a water supply so generally not very well suited for vehicles).

The Superbottle doesn’t have the compressor integrated into it...

And what you describe still doesn’t sound like a head pump... or every air conditioning unit since like the 1900s is a “heat pump.”

The Model 3 has an air conditioner and resistance heating. It has a complex liquid loop to maintain battery, inverter, gearbox temperature and will draw waste heat from any of those to maintain the proper temperature of the rest... but the liquid loop doesn’t heat the cabin at all.

 

[Dan203]

I think it all depends on demand for the Y. Tesla is expecting the Y to eclipse the 3 in sales. If that happens then upgrades to the 3 will likely get pushed off to the back burner for a while like the did with S/X during the 3 ramp up.