Model Y vs. Mustang GTE

[ralph142]

Long time lurker. I don't have Tesla yet but have at least driven one. My current ride is a leased Caddy XT4 which I give up at the latest Nov 2021. I've been holding out for a Y. I am intrigued by the Mach E! It looks really cool. However, there are still a few drawbacks that I can see.

1. You need an EV Ford dealer near you. I'm not really certain I will see one.
2. You have to deal with a dealer.....
3. Tesla has the Supercharger network. I do understand Ford is partnering up for stations but will you be able to charge as fast as a Tesla?
4. How far behind is Ford going to be with technology?

If any of the 3 Ford dealers near me certify for EV, I would certainly entertain one more seriously. Time will tell I guess but at the momtn, I'm leaning toward the Y.

1.) no clear answer, obviously it would be more prudent and convenient, but doable if one is within some reasonable range.
2.). Yep, ugh, but ymmv.
3.) fords statements about this have been arguably misleading because they include so many level 2 charge points, still there are a lot of ccs dcfc out there, and electrify america, as well as evgo are growing their networks. Around me there are no where near as many ccs stalls as there are Tesla super charger stalls, but ymmv.
Again, in my experience up and down the coast, road trips are easy with the Tesla, less so with other networks.
4.) no one outside of Ford really knows, but it will be fords first real shot at this. IMO, they don’t do well with existing cars, and have no track record as a software co, so I suspect it will be clunky and harder to change, but we’ll see.

you have time with your lease, so can get a good look at both, and any others that show up, the vw buzz for example.

 

[Reeler]

2. You have to deal with a dealer.....

It is a trade-off. But, I don't mind the sales process at a dealer. Maybe because I negotiate professionally for a living.

First, Dealers will react to pricing pressure more quickly than the central planning on price that Tesla does. I ordered a Model 3 after a tweet from EM that AP would be free and sales presumed this was for the SR too accepting and confirming my order with a deposit. Some Tesla executive had a different interpretation a week later and my order, deposit and delivery were cancelled. My last Chevy Bolt purchase was $14K under MSRP which made it some $20K less than the equivalent Model 3 with the tax rebates.

Second, Tesla has terrible quality problems. Dealers reject imperfect inventory from the factory before it goes to the customer as no one in sales wants to peddle a new car with scratches, dents, etc. They probably fix them and charge that back to the factory before the customer is disappointed with damaged or poorly assembled product at purchase. That delivery specialist at Tesla works for the factory and is incentivized to push poor fit and finish.

On my 7th new Tesla purchase, there was a scratch clear through the paint on the bumper. I just asked that it be documented with an e-mail or due bill. After I had loaded my stuff in the car and paired the phone, I was told that there would be no documentation or a fix ever. I could take the damaged car or walk, which is exactly what I did. I will never buy a Tesla again after having to explain to my tearful teenager that he wouldn't get the Tesla he wanted.

 

[Sneezy]

It is a trade-off. But, I don't mind the sales process at a dealer. Maybe because I negotiate professionally for a living.

First, Dealers will react to pricing pressure more quickly than the central planning on price that Tesla does. I ordered a Model 3 after a tweet from EM that AP would be free and sales presumed this was for the SR too accepting and confirming my order with a deposit. Some Tesla executive had a different interpretation a week later and my order, deposit and delivery were cancelled. My last Chevy Bolt purchase was $14K under MSRP which made it some $20K less than the equivalent Model 3 with the tax rebates.

Second, Tesla has terrible quality problems. Dealers reject imperfect inventory from the factory before it goes to the customer as no one in sales wants to peddle a new car with scratches, dents, etc. They probably fix them and charge that back to the factory before the customer is disappointed with damaged or poorly assembled product at purchase. That delivery specialist at Tesla works for the factory and is incentivized to push poor fit and finish.

On my 7th new Tesla purchase, there was a scratch clear through the paint on the bumper. I just asked that it be documented with an e-mail or due bill. After I had loaded my stuff in the car and paired the phone, I was told that there would be no documentation or a fix ever. I could take the damaged car or walk, which is exactly what I did. I will never buy a Tesla again after having to explain to my tearful teenager that he wouldn't get the Tesla he wanted.

I deal with the fleet sales guy at my Chevy dealer. I don't mind him, but the rest of the process can be a pain in the ass. I have gotten it to the point where I don't have to deal with the sales manager anymore. I do it all with the salesman.

Tesla quality can and is an issue which is why I'm watching both. But I have time.

Or I can say screw it and get a C8.

 

[SoGA Fan Club]

My last Chevy Bolt purchase was $14K under MSRP which made it some $20K less than the equivalent Model 3 with the tax rebates.

The Chevy Bolt has AP now? A fast charging network across the country? OTA updates? And the safest car tested just like the Model 3?

Wow! If so, Chevy has definitely made some major improvements in the Bolt.

 

[Reeler]

The Chevy Bolt has AP now? A fast charging network across the country? OTA updates? And the safest car tested just like the Model 3?.

The SR doesn't have AP at all, just adaptive cruise . . . so Yes. And YES the Bolt has much of the modern tech things like Android Auto and Apple Carplay that Tesla is struggling to compete with by adding things like texting that is far behind these the two open standards. The auto high beams work fab unlike Tesla. It has surround view too. Pluses and minuses for sure, but only a fanboi would conclude Tesla is the clear winner on technology when comparing the entry level model.

Fast charging is very available now with many different non-proprietary providers. I am about to do a Denver to San Diego trip with plenty of fast chargers on that route. The Chevy Bolt is a very safe car too as are most EVs with the battery reinforcement. There are more open standard fast chargers today than proprietary Tesla ones.

My son actually likes the Bolt more than the Tesla. I do too and only drive my Tesla on snow days where AWD is needed. To each their own, but I gave up drinking Tesla koolaid a while ago after too many poor interactions that I could no longer forgive.

 

[SoGA Fan Club]

My son actually likes the Bolt more than the Tesla. I do too and only drive my Tesla on snow days where AWD is needed. To each their own, but I gave up drinking Tesla koolaid a while ago after too many poor interactions that I could no longer forgive.

By you using the the M3 SR for your comparison, that means you bought your Bolt for $15k ($35k - $20k = $15k)?

And exactly why are you posting on a Tesla forum - on a thread comparing the MY to the Mach E - about your Bolt? Are you trying to win over Tesla people to Chevy? I mean, I'm just trying to understand exactly what your point of posting on a Tesla forum is if you hate Tesla and its owners (fanbois as you called us).

 

[Reeler]

By you using the the M3 SR for your comparison, that means you bought your Bolt for $15k ($35k - $20k = $15k)?

After Fed and State tax rebates available at the time, yes the Bolt was $20K cheaper. The SR has more expensive delivery and very expensive paint color added to that base price of $35K. The SR doesn't have mats and a few other things that are standard with most other brands too.

On this thread, the Bolt is a real analog to the Mustang since it is not available. I think a Chevy dealer is a decent approximation to what we can expect from Ford dealers too.

 

[SoGA Fan Club]

After Fed and State tax rebates available at the time, yes the Bolt was $20K cheaper. The SR has more expensive delivery and very expensive paint color added to that base price of $35K. The SR doesn't have mats and a few other things that are standard with most other brands too.

On this thread, the Bolt is a real analog to the Mustang since it is not available. I think a Chevy dealer is a decent approximation to what we can expect from Ford dealers too.

If those Bolts are so damn good, why can't they sell them? I mean, according to you (posting about a Bolt on a Tesla/Ford thread), the Bolt is the best thing since sliced bread - why wouldn't people being waiting in line to buy them like they do the Model 3?

 

[Quibbs]

By you using the the M3 SR for your comparison, that means you bought your Bolt for $15k ($35k - $20k = $15k)?

And exactly why are you posting on a Tesla forum - on a thread comparing the MY to the Mach E - about your Bolt? Are you trying to win over Tesla people to Chevy? I mean, I'm just trying to understand exactly what your point of posting on a Tesla forum is if you hate Tesla and its owners (fanbois as you called us).

I've asked several posters who post habitual negative post why they stay on a Tesla board if they do not like the product or company. Almost 100% of the time they'll reply without answering that part of my query. Why? Because they have an agenda, there is no other way to look at it. If you post 200+ messages and they are all anti-tesla there is no good way to explain it. Sad that people spend so much of their energy being negative, regardless of their reasoning/motivation. The silver lining is (thanks in part to posting history) is they dilute their own negative messaging and develop a reputation of either an irrational angry person or someone with some kind of special interest in seeing Tesla fail.

 

[Reeler]

This is by design a "contrast thread" . . . Ford v Tesla. The thread invites a contrary view, that is the very purpose of the question posed here.

 

[Ghanziang]

There are more open standard fast chargers today than proprietary Tesla ones.

Question on the charging. I believe that the Tesla comes with a J1772 adapter that would allow you to use most of the open standard chargers. Is the large concern for traveling (like the one you are about to undertake) that there is not a CCS adapter readily available for the Tesla connector? It seems that having the Tesla network and the open standard network both available to you would be the best of all worlds.

 

[Mr. Ed]

We own a model X and a Bolt. I love the X but it is not perfect. The Bolt is great around town, is easy to park and actually rides better over the same bumps in the road. Our Bolt's build quality is flawless. The Model X, not so much. However, if I could only have one car it would be a Tesla. I am considering the Y to replace the X in a while. I am hoping the built quality will be improved. I do not need all the bells and whistles that are on the X.

 

[Reeler]

Question on the charging. I believe that the Tesla comes with a J1772 adapter that would allow you to use most of the open standard chargers. Is the large concern for traveling (like the one you are about to undertake) that there is not a CCS adapter readily available for the Tesla connector? It seems that having the Tesla network and the open standard network both available to you would be the best of all worlds.

The J1772 adapter doesn't come standard with a new Tesla, but is relatively cheap. It allows your Tesla to charge on any standard J1772 slow charger. That is handy, but not for a road trip.

Tesla also sells a Chademo adapter that allows your Tesla to supercharge on the standard Chademo stations, but that standard is on the way out with only Nissan holding onto it. Many wish Tesla provided a CSS adapter as that is the supercharging standard that seems to be winning out with all other brands going with it. CSS has higher power delivery levels than the Tesla superchargers with Porsche leading the way there.

Going the other direction, I agree that Tesla should provide for other brands to charge with an adapter that allows for cost recovery. It would be an easy way to monetize their network. Now that it isn't the only supercharging game in town, it is not much of a selling point for Tesla cars. Tesla already has a CSS adapter for the European version that is a little different so it is very doable.

 

[Jeff3820]

The J1772 should be included with a new Tesla:

Mobile Connector

The Mobile Connector is included as standard equipment with a new Tesla. It’s a compact bundle that can charge your car from different outlets at medium to low speeds. We recommend installing a Wall Connector at home and leaving the Tesla Mobile Connector in the trunk of the car as a backup option while traveling.

This bundle includes:

• Mobile Connector (20 feet)
• Adapter for standard 120 volt household outlets (NEMA 5-15)
• Cable organizing bag
• Adapter for public charging stations (SAE J1772)

 

[Alset Srotom]

The J1772 adapter doesn't come standard with a new Tesla, but is relatively cheap. It allows your Tesla to charge on any standard J1772 slow charger. That is handy, but not for a road trip.

Tesla also sells a Chademo adapter that allows your Tesla to supercharge on the standard Chademo stations, but that standard is on the way out with only Nissan holding onto it. Many wish Tesla provided a CSS adapter as that is the supercharging standard that seems to be winning out with all other brands going with it. CSS has higher power delivery levels than the Tesla superchargers with Porsche leading the way there.

Going the other direction, I agree that Tesla should provide for other brands to charge with an adapter that allows for cost recovery. It would be an easy way to monetize their network. Now that it isn't the only supercharging game in town, it is not much of a selling point for Tesla cars. Tesla already has a CSS adapter for the European version that is a little different so it is very doable.

The J1772 absolutely comes included with a new Tesla.

If you are literally saying a Chevy Bolt is a better product than a Model 3 you may have been recently concussed...

 

[Ghanziang]

The Mobile Connector is included as standard equipment with a new Tesla. It’s a compact bundle that can charge your car from different outlets at medium to low speeds.

Thanks! I was concerned that Tesla was starting to really nickel and dime us. I am wondering why no CCS adapter in the US when the European cars only have a CCS port. I just checked the tesla website and I don't see the CCS adapter. But I did find this article that is exists, or is coming soon? https://electrek.co/2019/04/03/tesla-ccs-adapter-first-look/

 

[Reeler]

Thanks! I was concerned that Tesla was starting to really nickel and dime us. I am wondering why no CCS adapter in the US when the European cars only have a CCS port. I just checked the tesla website and I don't see the CCS adapter. But I did find this article that is exists, or is coming soon? https://electrek.co/2019/04/03/tesla-ccs-adapter-first-look/

Road trips in California are nearly impossible certain times of year that such travel is common. Tesla loves to vertically integrate so a CSS adapter would allow you to choose. I think they made an exception for Europe as the regulators basically forced them.

Just like Apple, they want to force you into their ecosystem (e.g., proprietary nav, proprietary charge connectors, no third party repair, no unapproved body shops, salvaged cars only allowed to reactivate with a hefty charge, etc.). I predict the Internet signal to Tesla cars will be replaced with the Space X satellite internet.

So long as you stay drunk on the kool-aide, a vertically integrated and locked ecosystem isn't bad.

 

[Mr. Ed]

The J1772 absolutely comes included with a new Tesla.

If you are literally saying a Chevy Bolt is a better product than a Model 3 you may have been recently concussed...

No, I am saying that our Bolt has better fit and finish and actually rides better on our local roads than our 2017 Model X. We have had it for a year now with no problems at all. The Tesla has been in the shop for several issues and is currently waiting for back-ordered front door latches and the yellow border on the main screen cure.
I was a day one Model 3 reservation holder. However, once I was able to sit in one I realized it was too low for me to comfortably get into and the storage area was not real user friendly. The Bolt fits our needs for a great local car and my wife prefers driving it to the much larger Model X.
The Model Y will replace the X if we get it. However I would have to give up our free unlimited supercharging and premium internet connection as well as some of the other thing we like about the X. We are Tesla fans, have had solar for over ten years and have had two powerwall2s since March which have worked flawlessly.
On another note, thanks for your sincere concern for my health.